Those who worship Tyson on ESB are delusional

Tyson is not a top 5 Heavyweight...

 

I do not dispute anything your saying, but Mike Tyson lost to Buster Douglas while Mike was still in his prime. I'm not saying Holmes has an amazing resume but I think it is slightly more impressive then Tysons. He had 20 straight Title defenses against all comers. I can not imagine any of the top 10 HW's of all time losing to Buster Douglas while in their primes. You also have to remember that Tyrell Biggs and Frank Bruno had Mike beat until they left their strategies and gave into the slugfest style that benifited the extremely powerful Tyson. Mike was one of the most entertaining and hardest hitting HW champs of all time, but not a Top 10 greatest. I can not see Mike beating any of the top 10 Heavyweights of all time. If you where taller then Mike and had any common sense and did not have a glass jaw then you can beat Mike Tyson. It wouldnt be easy, and you would know you were in a fight but it coulf be done. Holyfield, Douglas, and Lewis all proved that Mike can be beat as long as you're smart about it. I understand that Mike was passed his prime when he met Lewis and Holyfield. But you cant tell me that a prime Lewis and Holyfield, or Ali, Holmes, and Foreman for that matter wouldnt beat Tyson if Buster f'n Douglas did in 1991.

 

Tyson fell to earth way too fast and young to be considered top-5 of all-time............ Top-10? That's possible......... Peace......

MR.BILL

 

You're being a little biased, I feel.

I'm not denying Holmes' greatness, but first of all he didn't face all comers at all. He didn't fight Tony Tubbs, Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas and Gerrie Coetzee for starters. Politics played a role in one or two of these fights sure, but the fact is Holmes didn't fight these guys. He was never even undisputed, not on paper anyway.
Tyson DID fight all comers in his prime.

Secondly, some of Holmes' title opposition is laughable. Ossie Ocasio? Alfredo Evangelista? Marvis Frazier? Come on...he had many title defences against no-hopers in amassing that impressive statistic.
Tyson's weakest challenger was possibly Bonecrusher Smith, a guy who gave Holmes a good fight. Maybe it was Tyrell Biggs, but although inexperienced was unbeaten, an Olympic gold medalist, and had a great corner behind him.

I also don't know why you say Biggs and Bruno (of all people) had Tyson beat.

Biggs won one, maybe two rounds but he could never sustain that sort of pace and Tyson beat the snot out of him.
Bruno was down in the first 10 seconds of the fight, nailed Tyson with one bomb which wobbled him, and then also got beaten up.

Fact is, one blip against Douglas aside, Tyson was head, shoulders, waist, knees and shins above any other heavyweight during his prime. He was also officially the best pound for pound fighter in the world for two years running. (1987 and 1988 ) When was the last time a heavyweight was called the best fighter pound for pound?

Earleir you said he doesn't measure up to the likes of Dempsey and Jack Johnson. I disagree. Those guys to a point cherry-picked their opposition.
Tyson fought every big name out there. (Okay, excepting Riddick Bowe.)

PS-did you ever see prime Tyson fight live?

 

Boxers generally are violent individuals thats the game they're in isn't it,sometimes it's controlled use for the ring but Tyson's not the first boxer to have poor morals/ethics it's just his are so well documented.Scratch a boxer and you'll find a history of violence.There's a long rap listin the history of boxing is Tyson on the top??I doubt it.

I was reading about a boxer who's old and in prison in America, somebody Green?
He'd got well into dope and invaded some dope flop house lay down the occupants face first and blown their heads off one by one!!as well as some other ****.
B-Hop spent six? years in the clink Strong Arm Robbery,Sonny Liston wasn't he a mob enforcer at some point breaking heads for 'Da Bosses
I imagine there's a few other 'orrible secrets in the annals of boxing

 

Tony Tucker.....period!

Wlad Klit best opponent he has beaten is a prime Byrd twice and L. Brewster......Tucker is a better fighter than both.

In fact a past his best Holmes in 88 is better than any oponent that both the top dogs have beaten in this era.

If you look at Lennox Lewis top 10 oponents........and he is has the second best resumre in heavyweight history just behind Ali........Tucker would be on it.

Watch his fights.......other fighters such P. Thomas, Biggs, F. Bruno, C. Williams were all on the same level as fighters such C.Brock, R. Austin, Rahman etc.........your forgetting yourself fella.

 

Ok ok to i read a bit more..........Frazier, Dempsey. foreman? better resumes or more dominents achievements i think not. In fact you need to really sit down and analsyse for one second-

Youngest heavyweight champion ever-
Most dangerous fighter ever-
2 time champion-
Unified a disorganised division in brutal fashion-
The best speed and power in a heavy ever-

Is he the best of all time? Of course bloody not........we all know this......all his bloody fans knows this........but saying that the man was JUST a good fighter......is a backhanded compliment.

When Tyson was physically able - B. Douglas, Holyfield had to perform super human feats of high level boxing skills, mental toughness, iron chins, and huge will to win to beat the guy.....in fact have to actually beat him up.

Post this period........Lewis still had to give the man 8 or 9 huge right hands....to just take him down.........same for Williams.........and he quit against McBride.......and those last 3 losses are way way past his physical and mental norm.

Your analysis is far to extreame........acting as if the guy was a media joke.......it listening to far to many media people saying he was a media joke....the irony is lost.

Go and study the history of our sport.........Dempsey defended the belt 6 times in 7 years..........and had moments where he could easily have lost the title..........Foreman lost to the likes of Young in his prime.......the guy you compared him to have huge holes in there achievements aswell.

Only men above Tyson if combined resumre/achievement and head to head is Joe Louis, Muhammed Ali, and Lennox Lewis.

 

Tyson belongs in the group below........with Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, Frazier, Marciano, Dempsey. NOT below them or higher...just in the same group!

 

Tons of boxers have done unsavoury things. Big names too. Which is why I find the Tyson bashing strange. Yes he's done bad things, but surely he's paid for it in one way or another over and over again?

The man just wants to live in peace now. Leave it be.

 

Biggs and Bruno did have Tyson beat just watch the fights. No I have not seen a prime Tyson fight live, but you dont have to see a fight live to score it or to analyze it. I have every one of Tyson's fights on VHS from late 1986 to the Lewis fight. I'm not saying Tyson couldnt beat a Jack Johnson or Jack Dempsey I feel that he definitely could, but if you look at opposition I dont think Tyson has the better resume. I'm not blamming Mike for not fighting all time greats because they simply werent around when he dominated the ring. Holmes was getting older by the time Pinklon Thomas and those others challanged him. I will never be convinced that Larry Holme's resume is not as good as Mike Tysons. Mike has never beaten an ATG Heavyweight while in their prime, it just never happened. Saying he is the fastest and hardest punching HW is all opinion by the way. I think Liston, Foreman, and Shavers hit harder, just from different angles and different types of punches. Ali, Patterson, and even a prime Holyfield I believe were faster then Mike. Joe Louis without question had faster hands then Mike Tyson.

 

Youngest heavyweight champion ever-
Most dangerous fighter ever-
2 time champion-
Unified a disorganised division in brutal fashion-
The best speed and power in a heavy ever-


Your analysis is far to extreame........acting as if the guy was a media joke.......it listening to far to many media people saying he was a media joke....the irony is lost.


Only men above Tyson if combined resumre/achievement and head to head is Joe Louis, Muhammed Ali, and Lennox Lewis.[/quote]

I never said Tyson was a media joke I know he is one of the great Heavyweight Champs, just not top 5. Youngest HW champ is fact, orginazing the division is fact also, the rest of what you listed is opinion.
Foreman, Liston, Shavers hit harder then Mike in my opinion. Not by alot but they did, its just that Mike had a lot more opponents that had glass jaws then the other men, and also mike was punching up most of the time and was able to put his legs into his power shots which is a good advantage and all the more power to him. Yes Mike can KO anyone with one of his huge hooks, but I dont think he carried the same power as the other 3 men. Holyfield weathered Mikes blows. He definitely isnt the fastest HW champ. Ali, Patterson, and Holyfield had just as fast if not faster hands. Joe Louis was definitely faster then Tyson just watch any of Louis's fights. Even against Rocky, at 37 years old Louis had great hand speed. Marciano just happened to be a f*cking boulder that no one could shake back then. I dont want anyone here to think I'm bashing Mike because I am not. He was a hell of a champ and a very dangerous boxer, but he is not a top 5 HW of all time in my opinion.

 

Mike is one of the main reasons I got into the sprt to begin with. Mike is human we all have flaws who are you to judge? Leave Mikey alone already.

 

Holmes does not have a better resume than Tyson.........there both on par.......for me to take out personal bias or at least attempt it......you just group fighters......and those two are in the same group for oponent quality.

I said Tyson had the best combo of power and speed ever........FACT!

Of course other fighters hit harder......im sure a Bruno, a Shavers and Tua etc hit harder......but clearly that isnt the point.

Tyson came about at a time when no other fighter was exceptional.......Holmes was affective and good but boaring, like Vlad is. Most of the other fighters around were talented but self destructive.

Tyson hype......came due to the fact he was exciting, young and looked awesome beating all his foes.

Of course we now know that he isnt the greatest of all time (which he was well on his way to at 22) or that his achievements compare to the Louis, Ali, etc.

Still a great fighter.......point being ENHANCED by the fact that Williams got a shot at the heavyweight title by beating 16 years past his best Tyson.

Add that he was American from the New York area......so he has the most populous city loving him as was one of there own and the most influential media in the world backing him.

 

I never said Tyson was a media joke I know he is one of the great Heavyweight Champs, just not top 5. Youngest HW champ is fact, orginazing the division is fact also, the rest of what you listed is opinion.
Foreman, Liston, Shavers hit harder then Mike in my opinion. Not by alot but they did, its just that Mike had a lot more opponents that had glass jaws then the other men, and also mike was punching up most of the time and was able to put his legs into his power shots which is a good advantage and all the more power to him. Yes Mike can KO anyone with one of his huge hooks, but I dont think he carried the same power as the other 3 men. Holyfield weathered Mikes blows. He definitely isnt the fastest HW champ. Ali, Patterson, and Holyfield had just as fast if not faster hands. Joe Louis was definitely faster then Tyson just watch any of Louis's fights. Even against Rocky, at 37 years old Louis had great hand speed. Marciano just happened to be a f*cking boulder that no one could shake back then. I dont want anyone here to think I'm bashing Mike because I am not. He was a hell of a champ and a very dangerous boxer, but he is not a top 5 HW of all time in my opinion.[/quote]


Exactly your opinion.......so have more respect.....for the fighter.

As a person.......we have seen his best and worse but then we should not judge so easily as none of us have met him, or know the true situation.

Who exactly are your top 5?

 

No,those who worship Jihad and **** are delusional.Tyson was great altough it's hard to have him in a top 10 ATG list.