Thought experiment: What if Liston just wasn't that amazing?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Mar 17, 2022.

  1. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Using an Alphabet Card Deck, in order, A-Z, with the ING and O missing, of course)...

    INGO
    1. Drop the I and N off (and toss on the floor).
    GO__
    2. Insert the A (on top) after the O.
    GOA_
    3. Cut the Deck, leaving the T on top (and insert the T after the A).
    GOAT

    And, just that quickly, in 3 magical steps, the Natural Order has been restored to Heavyweight Boxing, and our Boxing Souls are at Peace.
     
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  2. White Bomber

    White Bomber Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Liston was amazing. End thread.
     
  3. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Resident Gadfly Full Member

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    Alright, he really isn’t as good as a lot here seem to think he’s up there with 70s Foreman. He has a pair of blow outs against Patterson who was two weight classes smaller and up until that moment his best win was over Ingo he really did become a better fighter later…

    Machen and Folley? Not exactly special, not bad but not great at all. Williams? Debunked endlessly, he has a draw with Machen as his highest honour and two brutal losses to Sonny Liston that apparently make him a great fighter. Ali beat him fair the first time, with relative ease and when you look at Muhammad’s education at that point…
     
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  4. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Real fighters do road work Full Member

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    It's a ridiculous proposition considering none of them came close to replicating what Liston did
     
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  5. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good stuff here , when more than one source is saying the exact same thing maybe uts true.
    Liston had over 50 fights ( off the top of my head) MOst fights weight , height , and reach is taken.
    Are we to assume everyone lied about Liston's 84" reach?
    Or, all of his usually bad contact with Law enforcement was made up ? By the mob no less?
    Doesn't make since. Especially when considering diffrent agencies are reporting.
     
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  6. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    You don't think that a combination of genuine wins and fight fixing / skulduggery could give Machen or Ingo a resume like Liston's?
     
  7. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It is wrong to say Patterson was 180 lbs. You cannot use the lightest weight you can find, &/or round weights down to suit a narrative.
    Patterson was 189 for the first fight, 194.5 for the second.
    Liston had a 25 & 21 lbs weight advantage in each fight, large but not massive.
    I always wondered why Liston did not weigh more.

    With his muscularity & not low body fat, long arms, & without the syndrome of "no legs", even at a little over 6'. he looks like he should have weighed in the mid 230's.
    Unless he came in dehydrated like Saddler had Foreman do, I do not understand it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
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  8. Richmondpete

    Richmondpete Real fighters do road work Full Member

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    There is no fix that makes Ingo or Machen sonny Liston no. It's not just about resume
     
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  9. Claw4075

    Claw4075 Ezzard Charles GOAT Full Member

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    I'm not gonna bother talking to you Sonny Liston bootlickers :fufu
     
  10. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Cus was in with a top level New York connection. Way over Carbo and Palermo's level. Later on he had a piece of Tyson. By that time Tony Salerno was boss of one of the Five Families and reportedly the wealthiesr of them all.
     
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  11. bboyrei

    bboyrei Member Full Member

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    Can't use the opposition even as weak as it seemed against him, he did what every dominant fighter did for their era and cleared the division, not to mention he was considered one of the most ducked fighters and that many ATGs after him looked up to and were inspired by him.
     
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  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Ahh, interesting.
     
  13. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What a copout :lol:. If you're to much of a coward, to engage in a debate and source your claims (which you can't do because they're agenda driven lies) just say that.
     
  14. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    In the interests of full disclosure, all of my claims are agenda-driven lies. As a matter of principle.
     
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  15. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    PARTIAL...
    For one thing, we would need to assume that Ingemar Johansson actually hit harder than Sonny Liston. Hmmm. Maybe he did. A case could be made.