Thoughts on Bartley Gorman... Educate me.

I’ve studied all of these guys as well.

I’ve read countless books, stories and interviews, and have engaged with a few people who knew of them.

There’s many books by Jamie Boyle and some great podcasts on YouTube.

Obviously, I and many others never saw these guys fight. So like with Bartley, there’s no real proof for you to study for yourself. But after hours of studying up on them, you can form a picture of who they were and what they were about.

From what I can gather from everything that I’ve read, Viv Graham was overrated as a fighter, even though he could certainly look after himself.

Lee Duffy was built like a CW at 6’4 and he had scary knockout power in either hand. He used to knock out people for fun and he pursued Viv for a long time, where he even went up to Newcastle on his own, where he single handedly knocked out a number of Viv’s doorman whilst wearing just a pair of shorts. He then left them in an unconscious heap, before he jumped back in a taxi to go back to Middlesbrough. A number of people have confirmed this to be 100% accurate, including the taxi driver himself. He did it to embarrass Viv and to send a message. So Duffy was an awesome fighter. But when you study him, you get to realise that although he could dish it out, he didn’t like to take it. He didn’t like getting hit. And if things were going the he wanted it to, it bothered him. That’s been mentioned by a few people.

Richy Horsley was the same age as Duffy, but their paths never crossed. Richy was a vicious fighter, who if he got his opponent in the floor, wouldn’t let get him up. He’d just stand over him and smash him to pieces. Whereas someone like Bartley, would fight under traditional rules and let their opponent try and regain his feet.

Richy’s book is a great read, and so is his podcast.

Of course it’s impossible to say what would happened had they have fought, but from what I’ve read, Richy might have been willing to have gone that extra mile.


From everything that I’ve read, the hardest men of the North East are/were:

Ernie Berwick of Sunderland.

Brian Cockerill of Middlesbrough

Lee Duffy of Middlesbrough

Richy Horsley of Hartlepool


Here’s Richy’s podcast:

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I’d like to know more of this man.

 

He was well respected. But he never had the reputation of guys like Joe Joyce, Dan Rooney and John Fury.

 

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It’s hard to say.

Like I’ve said, both Uriah Burton and Dan Rooney wouldn’t fight him.

I don’t know the best guy who he beat.

It would probably have been Bob Gaskin, who he levelled with a single punch, before he was then viciously attacked and nearly killed at the St Ledgers day meet at Doncaster in 1976.

The best guys he ever fought were probably Henry Francis and Mark Ripley.

Mark Ripley was said to be an awesome fighter in Kent, back in the 70’s.

They fought each other but it was broken up twice and it never reached a conclusion.

Henry Francis had a fearsome reputation in the 90’s. He’d fought Aney McGinley when he was younger and he’d beaten some tough traveller families in Britain and Ireland. He was friends with Tyson’s Dad, John. Francis and Dan Rooney were said to be the best travellers after Bartley had relinquished his crown.

Henry Francis idolised Bartley. Bartley was his hero. They fought in 1995 when Henry was in his prime in his early 30’s, and Bartley was 51. They were at a wake together and Henry wanted to fight someone on a nearby camp. And Bartley told him that it wasn’t fair to disturb the camp at such a late time and that he’d fight him instead. Francis then declined. But a short while later, Francis again wanted to fight someone. So Bartley again said that he’d fight him. So they fought. And by all accounts, Henry got the better of the situation because he kept using his head, and Bartley was very drunk. But the fight got split up and never reached it’s conclusion as someone had called the police. They were then going to fight after, but Francis had regretted what he’d done and they never went back at it. Then when he was dying, Henry visited him in the hospital and told him that he was the greatest knuckle man of all time. I personally know someone who knew of Henry. And he told me that his fearsome reputation was 100% accurate. He used to live in Newark, Nottinghamshire. I think that he still does.

 

From everything that I’ve read, Lee Duffy could have made a very good boxer. But he never had the dedication as his life was just chaotic.

It’s true that Duffy knocked out a group of Viv’s bouncers though.

Even one of the bouncers who he knocked out has admitted it.

He was a bully. But he was bullied himself and endured an horrific childhood. But that’s no justification for what he did.

 

Many thanks.

 

Thats him, well done!

 

Is there any source you got of the bouncer confirming it? I'm not doubting he did knock bouncers out it's just the story gets different numbers of bouncers all the time. For example one video stated a British Vale Tudo fighter threw him out of the club (It said the guy's name but couldn't find anything on the Internet) It then claims Duffy sucker punched him and knocked him out while another version claims the fighter punched Duffy straight back and Duffy backed down, so which is it? I know he broke the neck of a bouncer called Peter Wilson and if I was a betting man I would of bet on Duffy against Viv Graham.

So is Bartley Gorman's book worth reading? I've got Joe Calzaghe and Lenny McLean's but have never read them (I've heard to take some of Lenny's claims with a pinch of salt)

Have you ever heard of Malcom Price of South Wales? He was meant to be a very hard man and got his pro boxing license taken away from him.

 

Have you heard of Paul Venis from Middlesbrough? Watched him on one podcast and he lived a similar life to Duffy and even said he grew up wanting to be the next Duffy, he has gone on to prove himself at a professional level in Kickboxing in the UK and European scene too with 32 wins and 31 by knockout, said he plans on fighting again this year or next. I would like to see him compete in Glory.

 

The Gaskins are a traveller family that used to be well known among the hare coursing fraternity. I'm in Kent, the Ripleys are a well known traveller family in this county.

 

I can’t remember where I read it now. I’ve read an awful lot on him over the past 3 years.

Jamie Boyle has produced 2 great books on his life, with anecdotes from many people who knew of him personally. They’re a great read.

The taxi driver who ran him up to Newcastle is featured in one of the books. He tells a few stories of Lee including that one.

Bartley’s book is the best book I’ve ever read. And it features many old, great photographs, and documents the old time bare knuckle travellers of the past. I must have read it 20 odd times since it’s original 2002 release. I take it on holiday with me every year and read bits of it whilst I’m on the plane.

‘On the Cobbles’ is another great book, which was released in around 2000. It tells the story of Jimmy Stockin, and his brother, Wally. I bought that one first. Jimmy Stockin could fight, but he didn’t have Bartley’s reputation. But there’s some great stories in it, and well worth the read if you’re interested in the bare knuckle, traveller life. He grew up around London and was in his fighting prime in the 80’s.

I do know of Malcolm Price, and I’ve been meaning to get his book for years, but I’ve somehow never got it. It used to be in Waterstones for a long time. I’m going to have to order it.

 

Yes, I know of Paul Venis. I’ve seen many of his interviews. Although I’ve not seen him fight yet.

I’ll have to look into his life more.

Apparently, he’s going to be portraying Lee Duffy in a biopic about him.

I hope that it gets sanctioned, because that would make a great film.

 

I would love you to tell me some of the knowledge that you possess of these guys.

I’ve been literally obsessed with traveller life and bare knuckle boxing for most of my life.

It’s always fascinated me.


Do you know anything of Mark Ripley?

In Bartley’s book, it says that his wife shot him in a pub and killed him.

Bartley says that he hit Ripley with everything that he had when he was young, but that Ripley was awesome and he wouldn’t go down.

Have you got Bartley’s book?

 

Interesting, based on what you've said I will invest in Bartley Gorman's book! May be a while before I read it as I got all kinds of books from wrestling books to conspiracies to read too.

These are some others books I plan on getting which are along the lines of similar subjects:

Street Warrior - The True Story of The Lengendary Malcolm Price, Britain's Hardest Man

Dominic Negus - My Life of Violence In and Out of the Ring

Julian Davies - Real Fighting Men Tell Their Stories

Geoff Thompson - Watch My Back

Also last question, do you think Lee Duffy could of taken Lenny McLean or Roy Shaw in a street fight?