Thoughts on Bartley Gorman... Educate me.

I went to school with one of the Lee's,he is now a big noise in the wholesale carpet business we were very good mates as kids,very talented artist.
My Grandmother on my Fathers side was a Cook related to the Willets,I grew up with several members of Traveller families the Frends',Vines,Price's,etc.Johnny Ripley used to do my car repairs ,lovely man and a talented performer on the comedy circuit.I've heard about Mark Ripley but never met him.There are two traveller sites within 2 miles of me, on them are Vine's,Frends,Penfolds and Lee's.

I bought horses off Johnny Beaney and drink with his son John Jnr. I know quite a few travellers through coursing. Never read Gorman's book

 

The paperback edition is only about £8. Or it was. I’m sure that you’ll love it. The photos are great. And I’m bad with books too. I hoard them. And I’m bad at starting other ones before I’ve finished the current one. But I couldn’t put Bartley’s down.

I’m definitely going to buy Street Warrior.

Julian Davis’ ‘Street Fighters’ is great. That was released years ago, and it features: Bartley, Malcolm Price, (I think) Henry Francis and Richy Horsley.

Try and buy Richy Horsley’s book too.

And look at Jamie Boyle’s great books. He’s done 2 on Duffy and 3 on Paul Sykes.


Regarding your question, obviously I don’t know. But like I’ve mentioned in a previous post, by all accounts, as hard as Duffy was, he didn’t like taking punishment. He didn’t like getting hit back. So I really didn’t know. But he attacked Brian Cockerill, and according to Cockerill, he got the better of the exchange. Lee then didn’t challenge him again, and he later apologised to him and asked if they could team up together to rob the local drug dealers. According to Cockerill and someone else who knew Lee, Lee apparently said that he must have been mad for trying to take on such a giant in Brian. Brian was almost 20 stone at the time, and of a similar build to Lenny.

So I don’t know. But as great as Duffy was at fighting, most of the people who he fought and beat weren’t great fighters and they were in awe and frightened of him.

I can’t imagine Lenny McClean being intimidated by him. And McClean’s size would have given Lee something to think about as he would have been fighting another Cockerill size guy with the same awesome reputation.

So I think I would probably have fancied Lenny.

I don’t know that much about Shaw, but I’ve read that he was a menace when he was younger and he also boxed. So I can’t really comment on that one. I don’t really have an opinion. But I’d go with Lenny over Duffy in a street fight.

 

Thanks for sharing that.

That’s fascinating.

Do they ever recount the old tales of Mark Ripley and any of the Frankham’s etc?

Have any of them ever mentioned Bartley?

It’s probably a different world now, especially as there’s been no claimant to the King of the Gypsies for years now.

Back in the olden days, every child, boy and man on any travellers site in Britain and Ireland, would have known who Burton, Bartley and Rooney were. They would have been revered.

 

Will definitely look into Richy Horsley, I've got some videos of him on podcasts ready to watch later on YouTube.

I don't know what to think about Brian Cockerill, no doubt the guy was tough and I imagine on size and willingness alone he'd beat most pro fighters in a street fight under heavyweight with few exceptions (Maybe some Heavyweights too) but some of his claims he makes are crazy. Like how the Miami Dolphins wanted to recruit and that he could of been the British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith's tag team partner (When exactly?)

 

How good do you think Bobby Gunn is ? compared to these other guys ?

 

Never heard anything negative about Gorman or Mark Ripley,I heard that Johnny Frankham was a lively boy outside the ring.

 

Pretty sure Lee wiped out the door team at the Hacienda back in the day. That team were massive in name too.

 

Brilliant stuff pal. I've heard loads about Berwick. Who was he? Ian Freeman was another hard man from that way too, correct?

 

How come Rooney and Gorman never got it on? And what did both men think of the other?

 

Geoff was a monster in his prime. His mentor John "Awesome" Anderson was supposed to a nightmare on the street too.

I love the 70's/80's. Proper hard men.

 

Brian doesn’t help himself with what he says, and he gets crucified for it in the comments section of his videos. But Brian was the real deal.

If you read both of the books on Duffy, whatever you think of him as a person, you’ll be left with no doubt that he was an awesome street fighter.

Then take into account that Lee challenged Brian, Brian got the best of it, and then Duffy backed off, apologised and then wanted them to team up.

Brian was a harder man than Lee Duffy.

The difference is, Lee would just knock anybody out whenever he wanted, just for the fun of it.

Brian is also highly respected by both Richy Horsley and Ernie Berwick.

I also know someone from Middlesbrough too who is of a similar age.

Although Brian exaggerates and some of the things he says get taken out of context, he was an absolute force.

 

I think Bobby is a real force in the bare knuckle world.

He’s big, he has boxing skills and was a Euro level pro, and he has power, heart, strength and huge hands. And he actually fights bare knuckle. Most bare knuckle fighters fight with straps. But Bobby is old school.

You have to remember these aren’t street fights.

He fights under traditional rules, just with his hands.

I think that he’d be a handful for any traveller.

 

I’ve heard that too.

He’s before my time, but I heard that he was a very good boxer back in the 70’s.

 

They used to have running battles with him.