Thoughts on Ken Norton?

Norton is the better record .

 

Is he, though?

I think a KO over the champion trumps Norton's losing record against an Ali who came in worse each time.

The rest of their records aren't that far off from each other. Rahman did a bit better against punchers than Norton...

 

It's funny. Ali isn't excused for coming in out of shape against Norton but for Foster it's the only reason he looked bad. For Norton he was 221lbs for Foster 226.

 

Laughably overrated comes to mind.

 

REALLY?

I'm surprised hearing that from you, or any other knowledgeable member like you.

 

I'm not particularly knowledgeable, but I agree with him.

Norton was a very good contender who occasionally brushed the title with his fingertips. Yet people rate Norton higher than champions who actually won the title and proved themselves to be the definite #1 guy for a time.

Norton was never clearly the best fighter in the world.

 

He beat up on an overweight Ali. Got smashed multiple times prime or not. Lost to Ali while he was fit and might’ve beat a shot Ali. Riveting, the only fight he avenged was like 3 years too late and Quarry was good not great and happened to be on the way out. Take away one decent win over Ali and we wouldn’t remember him. His effort against Larry was valiant but decisive he lost to a better but also injured fighter.

 

In rating Norton I'm not sure why people defer to the "Official" decision in the Rubber Match vs Ali.

I mean fine, of course, IF you actually think Ali won in reality.

However, IMO, along with many others it seems, it was a clear robbery. So, it doesn't hold with me to just say Norton never won a title - as if to say his loss in fight 3 vs Ali was a literal reflection of the limitations of Norton's abilities and inability to seize the moment, take the crown and sit atop the division for however long that might've lasted. For all intents and purposes, Norton did win, beating Ali and in a fight for the coveted brass ring no less.

And I believe it would've been fitting for Ken to have been duly awarded the decision in the Rubber - even with the broader landscape accounted for. Ken beat Ali in the first fight, lost a razor thin decision in the rematch and finally won clearly in their third match. A well proven, dominating edge over the presiding Champ. No one off.

The older, post prime Norton also only lost by a p-hair to Larry Holmes, another ATG, and IMO, the decision could've arguably gone Ken's way by the same, impossibly small margin or the verdict at least have been a draw. I understand the claimed injury to Larry's left arm but really, Larry's jab looked fine scoring and controlling the action in the first half of the fight.

Finally, did any Champ (as Ken was proclaimed on paper) have to face as stiff an opponent as one Larry Holmes in their very first defense? Tough gig.

 

to me Norton win 2 in 3 of Ali fights.
to me Norton fight a real draw with Holmes fight. if Norton age a few younger I think he win with Holmes clear.
Norton deserve rated with these great.

Rahman loss 2 KO with Maskaev . knocked from boxing ring ! lost old Holyfield. loss Tua. loss Ruiz.
he win with 35 age Lewis then loss KO with re match
for me Norton better is clear

 

During those years Foreman was gone, Frazier was gone, Ali was fading fast .. most thought he lost the rubber match vs Norton and he was terrified of having to fight Norton to try and regain the title if Norton had first crack at Spinks as champ .. Young was a spoiler who excelled against large, slow moving punchers but lost to Norton .. I think it's Norton clear ..

 

He's known because he fought Ali three times and absolutely deserved two decisions and many feel all three .. he then past his own prime gave Larry Holmes the fight of his life in a decision that could have gone either way .. he also essentially ended a past it Quarry's carer as a contender, destroyed a hyped , undefeated Duane Bobick and decisioned a very good Jimmy Young in a very competitive fight .. Norton was a 6' 3" , 215 to 220 pound fighter with a tough jab, an 80" reach, a hard punch and terrific conditioning ..

 

exactly correct very good post.
if judges in Ali fight 3 did right thing Norton could be seen like major champ of era. also no complaints if Bobick Duane & Jimmy Young was title challenge fight. this "changes the picture"' of championship in 1970 decade.
It would be Norton: win title off great champ, + 2 "decent ' " challenge. lose title to young great champion very close fight. if only judges has done right thing.