Thoughts on this top 5 @ 160

Roy looked awesome at 160 but it was too short a sample size. With Robinson its important that we differentiate between pre retirement and post retirement head to head. He was only beaten once at middleweight up until 1952. The night Turpin beat him perhaps Ray had enjoyed France a bit too much before coming to England.
The Sugar Ray from the rematch in New York sweeps this field in my own view. That was the best 160lber I have seen.

 

This is how I see it, too.

 

Hopkins in, Burley out.

Hopkins resume is just stronger.

Jones also dubious. He looked great the fights he had there, but they weren't many. And Hopkins is 80% of his resume at MW, so if Hopkins isn't top 5 I fail to see how Jones can be.

 

Monzon
Greb
Hagler
Burley
Robinson
My top 5 for what its worth

 

Both are not. Easy enough.

Who avoided it? John and I have both touched on it.

Do you rate Tommy Hearns as a greater Lt. Heavyweight than Virgil Hill? Ezzard Charles as a greater Heavyweight than Joe Louis? Ray Leonard as a greater Middleweight than Marvin Hagler?

Two notable wins for Jones. One of them was “very decent” and the other was pre-prime, but you call that “great credentials for being a great Middleweight”?

 

If Jones had to weigh in on the day of the fight it would make a world of difference IMO.

 

Have it your way. Jones>Hopkins.

How does that equate to Jones rating top 5 at Middleweight? Because he beat one guy in the top 20 in one of two notable fights there?

 

Now, I am not going to debate Jones vs Hopkins prime vs prime because it does not matter.

RJJ won (not dominant) but both guys were green/pre-prime and way to respectful of one another and both very reluctant to exchange (dreadful fight to rewatch) . But RJJ clearly won and it is a good feather on his cap. But the greater resume is Hopkins.

Just out of curiosity you include Hagler on your top 5 (not disagreeing as he makes mine as well) but the holes you poke in Hopkins resume and try to discredit his opposition do you equally level the same criteria to Hagler?

How much greater is Hagler’s resume than Hopkins? Who are the great MW’s he beat? Hearns (WW) Duran (LW) Mugabi (overrated but even if not JMW was his best)...and he lost to a blown up WW in Leonard (I scored for Hagler by the way so I am not bashing him). It just seems like a pass is being given to Hagler and he is not being held to the same standard as Hopkins is.

 

I rarely disgree with you, but Hopkins resume superior to Burley's? I can't see it, Burley beat Wade and Chase multiple times,Bert Lytell,the Hogue brothers and gave a 60-8-5- Moore six pounds and a beating flooring him 3 times.
A small middle Burley regularly gave weight away to light heavies and trounced them.Hopkins beat past prime welters in De La Hoya,Brown ,Trinidad, a 34 years old Eastman and a 33 years old Jackson.Hopkins never beat a great middleweight or even an especially good one.