Thrilla in Manila - Did Ali ask his corner to cut his gloves off?

It was the 14th not the 13th I believe Ali said something along the lines of "I'm not going back out there. That mother****er crazy."

Ali later told his biographer Thomas Hauser, "Frazier quit just before I did. I didn't think I could fight anymore."

 

It may have happen, but doubtful. Dundee denied it by stating Ali never said a word about quitting to him. That video is on YouTube. Ali was in full control at that point as well and was ready to finish Fraizer. Dundee would have sent him out regardless, just like he did against Liston when Ali apparently said cut them off.

 

Ali’s guy Wali Muhammad apparently told Hauser that it happened, for whatever that’s worth:

 

Just can't see that happening especially after he was on the verge of stopping Frazier in the previous round, now way IMO.

 

It's hard to say. One of the many stories from the Ali legend. But if he could see Frazier was on the verge of getting stopped, he was practically blind by then, then I'd be surprised if he wanted the gloves taking off.

 

I've just looked in Hauser's book Muhammad Ali His Life And Times, he quotes Wali Muhammad as follows.
"After the fourteenth round,Ali came back to the corner and told us"," cut them off"."That's how tired he was.He wanted us to cut his gloves off.And Angelo ignored him .He started wiping Ali's face,getting him ready for the fifteenth round.We sponged him down and I gave him a drink of sweetened water,honey and water from a bottle,I'd made up.I don't know if he would have gone out for the last round or not,Ali's not quitter."

 

Dundee always said it was rubbish, and that there was no quit in Ali.

 

He did ask Dundee to cut off his gloves in the first fight with Sonny Liston in Miami in Feb.1964.He went back to the corner and told him that he was having trouble seeing because Ali had gotten some liniment in his eyes.

 

I believe he did. I dont see why anyone in his own corner would make that up. Ali himself is quoted as saying it. Kinda shows how far Angelo's head was up in the clouds.
I believe Ali walked back to his corner after 14 incredulous at Frazier's will. He yelled Cut Them Off and maybe said Frazier is crazy or whatever. Here is the difference Ali would have went for 15. 100% I'm sure. Saying I'm quitting and actually quitting are separate things.
Remember it doesnt matter what the scorecards were. They had fought 14 in a furnace at a pace that would make Welterweights proud. When you throw as many punches as Ali had your about done. Nevermind that Frazier had to been returning solid bodypunches and lefthooks.
The one possibility is that Ali's body shutoff like Sugar Ray's had. He did collapsed right after. Its intriguing.
Eddie Futch was a great man to do what he did. It took alot to not lose sight of the fact that Joe was a man first with people who loved him.

Ironically it was a shame Ali had no one in his corner that had that kind of character and courage.

 

Ali had a moment where he felt his body telling him something. He had also said that he felt like death was in the neighborhood and was after round 10. It was.both brutal and beautiful at the same time. It turned out the way it was meant to.

 

The answer is yes if you believe the late Willie the Worm Monroe who was signaling Benton from Ali's corner

 

I think Dundee should have walked away ,as Pacheco did.

 

I do remember either hearing or reading Ali say something to that effect about being on the verge of death from the pain and sheer exhaustion of that fight. That he couldn't even feel his stool. I included the quote in a paper I wrote in high school but it's long gone by now maybe someone else has dug it up.

It's also possible Frazier fans manufactured or exaggerated the quote to make Frazier look better and insinuate Ali's win was "luck" since Futch didn't know how poor Ali's condition was and his complaining.

I find the whole thing strange considering Ali was possibly ahead on the cards and was beating the breaks off of Frazier in the previous round, lumping him up, busting his lips red, and knocking out his mouth piece. It would be a very bizarre time to quit.

 

Dr. Pacheco when asked about this said,," we all wanted to quit" The evidence is fairly clear. I've always wondered what would have happened if the came out for the 15th, watch the tape, after the fight was stopped , Ali stood up with a hand in the air then he collapsed. Though he took a lot of punishment in the 14th, I think Ali had shot his bolt and was finished, but it's only speculation.