Thriller in Manilla, C4 last Monday night. Anyone see this?

The show made me change my mind completely on ali .
Frazier gave him money in his time of trouble.
All ali does is throw insults towards frazier. I know he says he done it to sell the fight but he still hasnt aplogised to frazier.

 

I'm not saying Frazier didn't give Ali money but we only have Butch Lewis' word for it and he seemed determined to make himself as central to the whole story as possible.

 

Ali is/was a ****. Shock horror. If you look past all the bluster and the bull**** its always been plain to see. He's just not a good bloke. Nothing to do with his ability as a fighter or anything like that (which is overrated anyway) but his treatment/attitude towards other fighters was ****ing awful

 

Ali says in his book that he borrowed money off frazier.

 

How is his ability overrated?

Ali is not as bad as you are making out or what that documentary made out (which was biased against Ali, still a great documentary). His treatment towards fighters BEFORE a fight was bad, mainly because Ali was a publicity ***** and would say anything to get on the front page of a newspaper. After the fight he showed respect to fighters, including Frazier, similar to what Floyd Mayweather Jr does as a recent example.

 

great doc if abit too anti-ali.

 

brilliant watch but it was a bit biased towards frazier

 

I got this dvd at xmas and have watched it maybe 20 times, not often i do that with anything visual to be honest,more for background etc. I knew the fight well enough No not fight stats etc etc but i felt when watching,how Ali such the good guy could do this to a man and tbh, he had every right.
The fights on, use every medium, personaly its that obvious in his actions he was in fear,someone as such a fighter as Frazier was, surely see's these thing. I wouldnt of gone that far, yet he did as he needed to. Purely woulda shown my fear.Frazier for me, is certainly still to an extent broken with it,though i think boxing moreso. Someone mentioned when i posted on classic forum, the dvd is certainly all Frazier.
1st question for me was when he was pulling out the corn etc, he still got his cash? I think he does, it seems he just misses it,remembers it and he is such a true warrior. I didnt like either fightwise, i like Norton,dunno why i just did somehow. Anyways, when watching that dvd, i had so many questions to post etc i just didnt know where to begin. Ma grammar and spelling's pish so i decided no to ask to much

The cash loan ?

The chat shows etc ?

Ali certainly made a ****** of him in the pisstake stakes but i think he(Frazier) could of easily spooked him. Maybe he was naive at the time,maybe he let him, maybe he should of just pulled him aside after a show and give him a stone cold "fights off, gaurantee u aint making the weigh in"
A bit of me see's he let it happen. Why didnt he pull him aside ? Why ? Did someone tell him, let it go, more ppl gonna watch ali shouting than fighting " we is quids in"

Ok i stopped now :good

As said, excuse the grammar and spelling .......

" Bo Bo doing it, good enough for me "

 

His ability is overrated in as much as people seem to rate him more highly than he deserves. I'm by no means saying he was a bum or anything like that. He was/is/always will rate amongst the elite of the elite in the HW division. I just think that his hype, razamataz, big personality etc... which made him the huge box office draw and undoubtedly one of the biggest, if not the biggest, sporting icon ever have led to his actual ability being overrated.

Just to take 1 quick example take a look at his trilogy v Norton. I have seen them all more than once and I have him losing all 3. He might possibly have a shout for a draw in the 2nd fight but thats about it. His 'cult of personality' seemed to persuade judges in much the same way that Eubank got some right ropey decisions many years later.

There were some truly unconvincing performances too. Wepner being the worst. Also he got taken the distance by Evangilista even though he had only had 14??? ish fights prior to that. He was also on the way to defeat against Ron Lyle until he pulled out the stoppage (mark of a champion I know).

Anyway, not saying any of this makes him a bad fighter or takes him out of the elite ranks. I just don't agree that he was this mythical, mystical beast of a fighter who is undoubtedly the greatest HW of all time. To be perfectly honest, prime for prime, I think Joe Louis would absolutely demolish him for a start.

As for his treatment of fighters thats all a matter of opinion. I haven't actually seen the documentary in question but I have it taped (recorded, does anyone use tapes anymore?) by the way. I have read a lot about Ali and I've made my mind up over a long period of time. My Da loves him. I was brought up being told he was the best thing since sliced bread. So if anything I should probably be all over him. Once I started to dig a bit deeper I didn't like what I found. The Ernie Terrell fight was particularly unpleasant.

 

Yes it was, but then Ernie Terrell was being very ignorant towards Ali before the fight.

So where would you place Ali in the Heavyweight lists of all time?

 

I'd have to have a good long think about it to be honest. It's not something I'd be able to do off the top of my head. If I was going to make a list that I was asked to defend again and again to various questions and attacks I'd have to take my time. But if you want an answer right now the best I can manage is that if (and when) I was to take my time and make that list I'd reckon he would be no higher than 4th. However, you never know, when I sit down and weigh it out he may well be higher

 

You need to post up more, good reading, this is the stuff i work off,cheers

The myth thing i certainly see, he was held in high regard with many things outside boxing from looks (FLINT) to the vietnam war thing, i dont type on what i dont know, so here it ends. He certainly made himself a brand..simply

More than he knows now or then


"ineed to find a good vcr"

 

I may not know fighters well enough, a walk in "classic" reminds me how to crawl. These things just cant be answered. After BOXING comes UPSET ! ! !

These lists etc just wont or cant be answered,presume sure


Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead