Throwing Fights - What Fighters...

Your right, Liston stood to gain nothing in throwing the Clay fights, especially the first. However Frankie Carbo figured he owed himself a payday, because he just had started or was about to start a ten year stretch in a Federal Pen. Also according to Nick Tosches in his book, "The Devil and Sonny Liston" there was a last minute surge in betting and that certain Mob Men made a killing at 8 to 1 odds, so much so that according to Tosches the odds went down to 3 to 1 and the Bookies eventualy stoped taking bets

 

I read that Liston's group had rights to a few Cassius Clay promotions if Clay won the title in their first fight.

 

The mobsters ALWAYS find a motive to fix a fight. They're criminals.

Some say that some bookmakers did feel that the line shifted late and adjusted the odds or stop betting altogether, but who knows ? And maybe the mob can fix the sports betting communications too, they can fix anything. The crooks didn't have to bet it all on Clay to clean-up, they could lay a fair bit on it going over a certain amount of rounds. And other stuff I cant even think of, these guys are ORGANIZED CRIMINALS, we cant second guess them.

I wouldn't believe everything in Nick Tosches book, but the Liston-Clay fight IS suspicious, IMO.
I cannot think of another time a heavyweight champion surrendered his title so readily in such a relatively tame fight. Only Liston, and he was mob-connected.

 

Also, the mobsters (or Liston's management at least) not only had a share in Clay's future promotions if he won, they also had a rematch clause.

Angelo Dundee and his brother Chris weren't exactly squeaky clean either. They were mob-connected. All the old school trainers and promoters were used to dealing with some mobster elements, esp. in a mob town like Miami.

Things get complicated when Clay turns into Ali and lets the Nation of Islam people manage him. Who knows what the mobsters thought of that, and how it affected the second fight. But by the mid-60s the mobsters didn't have the same influence in boxing as they had done anyway.

 

He didnt relly demolishing any one of thsos guys in rematchs.

The rematch with Turpin was close until Goldstine stop the fight, today many people think it was a bad stoppage.

Next is Carman, who beat Robinson in the first match, and made it a CLOSE match in the 2nd match.

Ok he took Fullmer out in the rematch, BUT it must be recall in the 3rd and 4th match he ended up with a draw and a lost. He was never able to get other win over Fullmer.

Pendler was always a style problem imo.

 

Or base on Tosches book, the Marciano Moore fight was a tank job also. He doesnt say it "Could" be a fix, he flat out claims in the book it was a fix.

 

Not real sure how it is a tank job when the Rock gets knocked down, and then proceeds to start beating the cr#p out of Moore.

I think Moore said: "Don't stop it, let me go out like a champ."

 

Its there in the book. I not saying its a dive. But the book makes the claim.

 

Just him saying it though.

It was among the words that Moore thown the fight to ensure that Marciano retire unbeating. It had no sources or any thing. It was a a line or so. But it makes a claim the fight was a fix.

 

Well, I say the book is full of ****.
Why would anyone take that much punishment and then go down in round 9? Moore could have easily have gone down in round 3 and made it an easier night for himself. It just doesn't add up...and I think it's insulting to suggest a proud warrior like Moore, who spent months campaigning for a fight against Rocky, would lower himself like that.

Speaking of the Rock, it's well documented that he was approached to throw a fight against an opponent by the mob. Unfortunately, the opponent was never identified.

Marciano exploded with rage, saying that he was ashamed that the mobster was an Italian-American like himself, and that he was disgusted by the very thought of throwing the fight.

I think it's been mentioned already, but Jake Lamotta threw a fight against 'Blackjack' Billy Fox.

 

If Moore laid down against Marciano, it was the best dive in history. Or the worst.

 

Yeah, right.

1947-11-14 Billy Fox W-TKO4 Jake LaMotta
Champion at the time: Rocky Graziano

Zale winning the title:
1948-06-10 Tony Zale W-KO3 Rocky Graziano

Cerdan winning the title:
1948-09-21 Marcel Cerdan W-TKO12 Tony Zale

LaMotta getting a title shot:
1949-06-16 Jake LaMotta W-TKO10 Marcel Cerdan

Title has changed hands twice after the Fox fight, before LaMotta got a title shot. It's all bull****, all the talk about LaMotta throwing the Fox fight, he got knocked out fair and square.