Tim Tszyu v Fernando Vargas

I like Tim Tszyu but picking him to beat Vargas is premature.

 

BTW, Harrison also beat Charlo and that fight was avenged.


It happens. All Tszyu can do is beat the best now and beat whoever is in front of him and actually HAS the Balls to man up.

 

Amateur records mean stuff all. I'm not sure why people resort to them.

I agree that Tim Tszyu hasn't yet got the record to match Vargas but **** me if people aren't dismissing him summarily based on any number of ridiculous reasons. I am not saying that you are doing that but much of what you have posted above is a little revisionist. Not as bad as some idiot calling him a nepo baby (as though he hasn't actually had to fight Harrison, Mendoza, Horn, Hogan, Gausha, Ocampo, etc) and others dismissing him because he "ain't his dad." I agree he isn't Kostya and not worthy or mentioning in the same breath at this time. But Kostya was an ATG. Vargas simply is not. And whilst Vargas was very good, Tim is not that far off him that the comparison isn't warranted. After all, Tim is the undefeated champ at 154 given the other guy has no interest in fighting him or even going back to 154 and Tim can only fight who the best in the division currently. He's not dodging anybody and he's cleaning out 154 one by one. And let's be honest, he has not looked remotely like losing.

I am not sure why Tszyu is so readily disregarded. I mean, there is another thread here where ignorant twits are saying that Vergil Ortiz would "murder" Tim Tszyu. Vergil Ortiz is barely relevant at 147 yet here we are saying he kills the best guy at 154? Give me a spell.

I have no doubt that if Tim had a different surname or was American these sorts of nonsense discussions would not be happening. He's a brilliant boxer in his own right, regardless of his name or nationality. Furthermore he is not a scumbag like so many or our "champions" yet all people want to do is tear the guy down. I am not sure why.

 

First off, I am not disregarding him. I have said multiple times that I like him and think he has a bright future.

2nd, Vargas's strong amateur background does matter especially given the time frame he competed in which was crazy loaded with talent. Look at how many USA fighters from the Kenny Admas ran program are in the hall of fame. That team faced top programs in many international competitions.

3rd. My comparison to his dad was unfair but necessary to point out to some on here think the apple doesn't fall far from the tree but I disagree. Kostya like Vargas was an outstanding amateur who had a long title reign at 140. Tim has only been a title holder for a year. People are overrating him.

 

Kostya was an ATG, but his comp was poor and he never bothered even trying to avenge his losses to Phillips and Hatton.

Vargas fought much tougher comp and his slightly lower level prevented him from reaching ATG status. He'd be an ATG with Kostya's competition level.

 

Oh FFS.

Whatever dude, YDKSAB.

 

Agreed.

I know a bloke in Western Sydney who K..O'd another dude with 12 professional fights. '' Bloke '' had no bouts whatsoever. Sparring yes. But still a K.O. Amateurs too getting the **** kicked out of them.

Amateurs, not all, but some. Are overrated as ****. That point sparring ****, Olympic style, and hit and run crap gets you nowhere. Also know quite a few amateurs with over a hundred bouts get smashed to pieces.

 

Vargas would have got mauled vs Kostya.

Vargas was just another Sharmba Mitchell and Zab Judah. They all tasted the canvas. And so would he.

 

Can you imagine it...Vargas versus that killer Kostya Tszyu?

Jesus Christ, poor Vargas would have left the joint in a hearse. Zab Judah still has not the faintest clue what happened to him 20 years later.

 

My point on outstanding amateurs is that plenty of them just don't cut it as professionals. Three round fights padded up are very different to 12 round fights where you have to take every punch.

Conversely, plenty of guys have limited amateur careers and become ATG's when they get into the ring with the big boys. Fernando Vargas going through a good US amateur program means absolutely nothing.

 

You have literally no idea what you are talking about. A guy with an amateur background of international competitions is not a "padded" record. When Vargas was 21 and in his 15th pro fight he was beating veteran world champions like Yory Boy Campus. He wouldn't have been able to do that had it not been for his background with US amateur program where he faced the best fighters in the world at a very young age. Yory Boy Campus is a better fighter than anyone that Tszyu has beaten at this point. I'm not saying Tszyu can't beat a guy like Campus but I'm saying he hasn't yet. The exact program that Vargas was in under Kenny Adams pproduced Mayweather, ODH, Mosley, RJJ etc. Guys that were highly seasoned that went on to win multiple titles starting at a very young age.

 

You seem confused.

Where did I say anything about Vargas having a padded record? I simply made the point that many top pros had limited amateur records and vice versa. I did not at any point state that Vargas record was padded.

I did say that Vergi Ortiz had a padded record in another thread where Tim Tszyu was a central topic but I think you’ll find my posting in this thread suggests that I rate Vargas very highly.

 

I just re-read what you said about amateur boxing and I guess when you said padded, you meant headgear? I thought you were referring to padded records in the amateurs and I was simply saying there is nothing padded about the competition Vargas faced as an amateur. He won gold at the Jr. Olympics, Bronze at the Pan American games and multiple national golden gloves that lead to him being an Olympian in 96'. He fought the best international competition before going pro and was a world champion by his 15th fight.

I apologize if I miss quoted you. Either way I am moving on from this thread. If folks want to believe Tszyu is a more seasoned fighter at this point in his career than what Vargas was so be it.

 

1) yep, padded as in headgear and protection as an amateur.

2) agree and I’m not suggesting Tim is better than Vargas at this point. But the comparisons will become apt if Tim can notch a few more wins against top guys.

 

Or maybe he was another Vince Phillips...