Tim Witherspoon vs all of Sonny Liston’s victims

Witherspoon’s fatass would find a way to disappoint if he were transported back.

But he might go undefeated if he only showed up at his best (less likely than time travel).

 

Tim beats them all in peak form.

 

And he's still better h2h than Williams.

 

And he sure proved it with his abundance of wins over top ten or even top twenty competition.

 

Lol

 

Witherspoons got about twice as many top wins as Cleveland Williams any way you slice it. And besides the Carl Williams win he got all those wins in his 20s at which point he stopped fighting good fighters.

Witherspoons beat about 8 title contenders, Clevelands only wins over true title contender wins are Terrell and Terry Daniels. Holman fought in a title tournament so thats true. Its true there were more title contenders in the 80s than 50s because there were more belts but if we dig further into Williams resume for big non title contender wins theres just Miteff, Bethea and Dick Richardson.

 

You seem to be misinterpreting my post. I was referring to Williams ranking relative to Jumbo Cummings., not Spoon. Williams was undoubtedly the better fighter. Their’s no getting around that.

"theres just Miteff, Bethea and Dick Richardson" This is completely untrue. He also had wins over Rischer, Daniels 2X, Terrell, etc.

 

Tell me how he was undoubtedly the better fighter.

 

Aside from the eye test.

He was ranked number 2 when he was shot. Cummings never even sniffed a top ten ranking.

He drew with Machen who was the best in the world excepting Liston and Patterson. Cummings would've been laughably befuddled against Machen, and I doubt he would've won a single round.

Williams has 4 wins over top ten fighters. Cummings has zero wins over top 20 fighters.

Cummings couldn't KO or even beat a half blind Frazier who was a shell of even the washed '76 Frazier who fought Foreman the second time around.

Make a poll if you're so confident.

 

My bad.

But I counted all those except Rischer. Terrell and Daniels were the 2 title contender wins I was referring to. I said theres just Miteff, Bethea and Dick Richardson for non contenders.

I agree obviously about Cleveland Williams v Floyd Cummings.

 

All good mate.
Miteff was also a top ten contender. He was 7 when Williams beat him.

 

He wouldn't have had a chance to be ranked in the top 10 amongst the early 80s heavyweights and would've been flattened by most.

As good as Machen was, he was also 13 lbs under Williams, and not even above what now would be the cruiserweight limit. The Terrell wins are pretty good (Yes, wins, he beat him both times), but Ernie didn't face any other hard hitters in his time apart from Liston in an exhibition, and though he certainly didn't have a weak chin, he was not invincible. And no, Eddie wouldn't have had a clean sweep on Cummings if a "technician" like Cleveland could've gotten a draw off of him. Floyd fought a hard fight against Snipes who was a damn good mover with a fantastic chin, and pushed him to the ropes constantly during the span of the fight.

Yes he does, in a weak era where men could've fought under the cruiser limit at heavyweight, and he also would've lost to every man that Cummings lost to without even a chance of bringing the same hard fight to each opponent.

Floyd beat Frazier and got robbed blind, everyone who's seen the fight knows that.

I'm not going to make a poll on two fighters with vast differences in popularity to try and convince you of something, Swag. Lol

 

To be fair Williams doesn’t really have the runs on the board either, though.

 

At least he has more than zero

 

You forgot to put names on the list!!!