I have always felt this fight to be a dive, though I've never seen it. Around 1990, I was watching Tim Witherspoon fighting a journeyman by the name of Jeff Simms.. the fight was broadcasted on the USA cable network, and hosted by former lightweight champ Sean O'grady and commentator Al Albert. I watched their show on tuesday nights quite frequently during the early to mid 90's. The evening's card featured Witherspoon-Simms and Biggs-Ocasio. The Biggs fight was a real 10 round sleeper. Originally, he was supposed to be fighting Carl " the truth" Williams, but Truth backed out at the last minute due to an injury of sorts. Anyway, during the Witherspoon-Simms match Sean O'grady discussed his pre-fight interview with Tim Witherspoon. Apparently the conversation involved talk about the adversity between Witherspoon and the King family. Carl King, Don's son, was responsible for managing Tim's career and was taking way too much money. After the Frank Bruno fight Tim forcefully went to Don King and told him he wanted a greater share of money, or he was going to sue him. Witherspoon continued to tell O'grady that in his very next fight, bonecrusher Smith was brought in as a last minute substitute for Tony Tubbs whom Spoon was supposed to rematch. Shortly before the fight, King told Spoon, " you will lose this fight or you will test positive for drugs" Spoon went out, and was dropped mulitiple times by Smith enroute to a TKO. Shortly after the fight he tested positive for drugs anyway. Later, Spoon filed a lawsuit against Don King productions for lost earnings in some of his most recent fights. The King's settled a few years later for about $1million. Most of what I just wrote was heresay, and coming from memory of a fight I watched nearly 20 years ago. I have always felt that the Witherspoon-Smith fight was suspicious of a dive, and have heard many others say the same. In the early 90's I have heard other commentators say that the only fighter that Tyson's camp wanted nothing to do with was Tim Witherspoon, due to his awkward style and guts. When I compare these testimonies along with Ogrady's interview with Witherspoon, and the fact that Tim actually beat Spoon in their first fight, things sound fishy to me. Not to mention the fact that things were getting red hot between Witherspoon and King over the earnings from the Bruno fight, and what a coincidence, Spoon gets blackmailed in his very next bout. Have I provided any solid evidence that Witherspoon-SmithII was a dive? Not really. But there are far too many heresay comments and bizarre scenarios pointing to the very strong likelyhood that it might have been. I think Spoon was getting a little to ascertive for Don and Carl King. He was one of the few or only fighters who had the balls to threaten the King's with a lawsuit for withholding promised wages, and at the same time, a young hot prospect was coming up whom the King's knew was going to make them a fortune, and didn't need to wrisk hurting him by fighting a dangerous and awkward fighter like Tim. Bottom line is this, Witherspoon was nothing but trouble for Don King productions. He was not going to cooperate with their shady business policies, and he well may have been perceived as a potential threat to a young Tyson's ora of dominance. I don't think Spoon would have beaten him personally, but he certainly could have injured him or made him look unimpressive. Additionally, Witherspoon was viewed as damaged goods after testing positive for drugs once, and wasn't a particularly popular attraction. King needed to rid himself of spoon, and did it in a most damaging fashion. After losing the Smith fight and testing positive for drugs, Spoon's ratings fell dramatically. In fact, he was winning fights in the late 80's while his ratings continued to drop. Although speculative, I can't imagine why that might be nor who could have had influence on that. Spoon was largely avoided during the early 90's by many top contenders, probably because most of them were under the umbrella of King productions. He did, however manage to get fights with rated contenders Carl Willliams and Joes Ribalta, but never got himself into position to fight for a title. Still, he took King to court and wound up receiving a settlement. At least I'll always give Spoon credit for being the man to stand up to Don king.
I saw the fight live and i think smith just caught spoon cold and the three knockdown rule sealed his fate. I think spoon could have beat smith in a rematch,and he was the better fighter. By the way,how do you beat frank bruno? With a spoon....:smoke
Witherspoon by 1987 had stopped training hard and had allowed his shape to go to waste. by 1987 he wasnt the ripped lean hot contender anymore, but the slow sluggish blubbery "man boobs" witherspoon on the decline. thats why he got knocked out
I can remember that fight like it was yesterday. Very strange, very sad. The whole week building up to the fight had been odd, the ugly side of Don King's relationship with fighters was apparent. Tubbs walked away because he wanted more pay. Witherspoon was reported to have pulled out too. There were statements, press conferences, confusion. Don King was robbing these guys blind, had his son Carl as a puppet "manager" for the fighters, so much that was obviously conflicts of interest. In emerged later that Witherspoon still hadn't been paid for the Bruno fight, a fight that packed London's biggest outdoor stadium, 'spoon ended up with about 90k at most from a 2 MILLION PURSE ! Anyway, I dont know if Witherspoon took a dive. He offered no resistance, his mind was elsewhere. Maybe he wanted out, he must have been depressed. Smith put him down three times, the punches were real enough. Whether 'spoon was told to lose or not, it doesn't much matter. If he hadn't had been getting robbed and bullied by the criminal Don King, if he hadn't had been a virtual slave, it wouldn't have happened. I take nothing away from Smith, he seized the opportunity, caught 'spoon cold, but Tim never put up a fight, he looked beat before the bell rang. After the fight Witherspoon was reported as testing positive AGAIN for marijuana, but a day or two later that was reversed. After that Witherspoon sued King, was frozen out by the alphabet boys (the criminals who run boxing), and never allowed another crack at a major world title. I still cant believe what happened in that fight. I'd reckoned Witherspoon woud win the HBO unification tournament. To see him go out like that to Smith under those ugly circumstances was unsettling.
Magoo's post was not about who would have won between Tyson and Witherspoon. As ironic as it may sound, this fight was not about Witherspoon being a top fighter. It was about a man in a position of power who didn't see Witherspoon as being part of his future plans. The Witherspoon-Boncrusher fight was about cleaning house. King had a problem with Tim Witherspoon and blackmailing him was his way of getting rid of him. Witherspoon being out of shape for Smith was irrelovent. Tim showed up with about as much intention of winning that fight, as I have being responsive when looking on my caller ID and seeing a telmarketing service.
I remember both the Simms fight and the Tubbs supposed fight... It was december of 1986 i think.. Tubbs had an elbow injury and Tim faced the in form Smith who was in training for a fight with Mitch Green.. I remember Green walking into Kings office after being iced out of his fight when Tim had been allocated the fight against his own scheduled opponent.. Green alledgedly bit a don king bodyguard and punched another and was ranting on about killing King and his stepson Carl. Smith won in what was a shocking upset... Tim was sloppy by way of condition, but years later on the BIG show in NYC (Lewis v Mercer) he faced Jorge Gonzales and looked reborn and in shape.. Tim had Balls the size of Basketballs.. I too always said the Smith v Wspoon rematch was thrown. so Tim could be released from Kings current contract... Very good memories of an interesting division.. Tyson was kept from Witherspoon.. I knew Bill Cayton and he once said to me "Tim is not and never will be in Tysons future ."
Woddy I have a question....i do agree with you that king effectivley took advantage of spoon and ruined him. Do you think Tyson-Spoon should have taken place? do you think tysons camp didnt want to fight spoon? Do you think it was king who held back a tyson-spoon fight?
Witherpsoon likely took a dive. It was a deal made with you know who to escape being black balled from his chosen profession. I agree. Tyson' s handlers wanted no part of Witherpsoon. They knew the danger.
Mendoza I dont want any beef anymore with you, so its ok for you to come clean and admit your Dr. Z. You sound just like him in every post. You say tysons camp knew the danger? if so how come they took on tucker, tubbs, thomas(beat spoon), berbick, bonecrusher(beat spoon), bruno(gave tim 11 life and death rounds), holmes(beat spoon), carl williams??? It appears tyson was taking on and demolishing fighters who beat spoon. So whats the big danger? was spoon better than guys like tubbs, thomas? i dont think so
Spoon could be very lively when motivated, he wasn't motivated because of the situation he was in.. King was paying him peanuts... As a free agent and the hidden incentive of being the first man to beat Mike.. Tysons people knew he was a tricky ******* when on form. He gave Holmes fits.. Tubbs nightmares... Bruno a lashing at the end of thier fight and was such an accomplished skillful heavy at that time... Just a hard to beat guy with slick skills..........
the holmes witherspoon fight could have gone either way, alot of people are calling it a robbery. Im sure witherspoon was more deserving of a title shot than many other guys. He was always top 5 during tyson's entire run as champ.
Well, I think he was more deserving in 1989 then say Carl Williams. I can't say for sure, but I've heard claims that Spoon was not a fighter that they wanted to go after. [/quote] Absolutely, King found Spoon to be a pain in the ass to do business with, and rightfully so. King was robbing him. As for Tyson's ability to beat him, I think he would have demolished him, but at the risk of possibly getting hurt in the process.
Remember Terrible Tim was expecting to fight Tony Tubbs not Bonecrusher. He had not bothered to train, and paid the price...