Tim Witherspoon W 12 Greg Page 1984

I feel compelled to let Larry speak for himself here.

The Ring Magazine, post Bey fight. Of course Larry had made similar comments way earlier but this is the one i have beside me right now.

and i quote

Larry Holmes


"I'm tired of guys like David Bey hitting me up the side of my head. That means no Pinklon Thomas, no Greg Page, no Tim Witherspoon."

What more need be said?? Certainly no mention of money right there, he's just not fighting them.

 

I had you swung around to this point of view last time too, years ago but you seemed to have forgotten :fire

Have a look at the lengthy post i just did and the short quote next post. I thought that hard i've got a headache and really can't add much more except for digging deep into the archives here and finding Larry's other quotes.

 

Yeah I remember that one old friend... You and I went round and round on this for about 3 days and 3 nights back in 2007 or somewhere thereabouts. I've never really changed my view on that, just at times disagree with the oversimplification of some posters who claim that he ducked anyone and everyone.. In either case, the man's reign was less than perfect but more than admirable.... Happy new year....:good

 

I do not think the navigation was soley being done by Larry, I still firmly believe it was the promoters.

It should not have been possible for Holmes to get more money to fight Frazier and Frank than he would have gotten for fighting Page. Page was obviously a better fighter than Frazier and Frank and had potential to make it a better fight, but Larry was lowballed with the fight purse and he turned around and got a lot more money for the other two fights.

It is not reasonable to ask Larry to go around taking fights for a lot less money than he deserved and let millions and millions of dollars slide by.

 

I suppose that by this point in time,Holmes was satisfied that he'd proved himself to be the best heavy in the world,so taking the potentially tougher fights was unnecessary.

 

Holmes continued to hold the WBC title after he beat Frank and Frazier, and still refused to fight Page for the $2.55 million that was being offered.
seeing as he reported got $2.8 million for fight Frazier, i kind of see his point.
Still the quotes of him openly admitting he didn't fancy any more tough fights speak volumes too.

 

Also .....

"I want a lot of money and no more of those big hitters like Tim Witherspoon and Mike Weaver," said Holmes, narrowing the field to almost nobody. "I've paid my dues, and if they want me back, they've got to give me little people I can beat on without getting hurt."

1985

 

In 85 he was 35 ... it was that time of his career ... let's not forget that at 42 he defeted a prime Ray Mercer and fought a competitive fight w a prime Evander Holyfield .. seven years later ... he simply was done being manipulated.

 

well he was making similar statements from 1982 onwards. ever since the after the cooney fight.

i absolutely believe he deserves admiration for being able to pick and choose his opponents and the way he would drive a hard bargain. for example he refused to fight Greg Page for $2.5 mill, he wanted $5 mill. and a few months later Page and Witherspoon fought each other for about $650k split between them.
but witherspoon and Page ended up making nowhere near what they deserved in their careers - complained of being robbed by Don king .... and Holmes made mega millions - that basically vindicates the way Holmes did business.

 

Cheers buddy, same to your good self.

 

Jeez.

 

Holmes didn't end up without the title until he GAVE it up at a WBC conference in Dec. '83, after he'd already fought Frank and Frazier without being "stripped." At that time, the WBC had publicly forbade him to sign for a Coetzee fight (which was already hot talk at that time) instead of Page. It was in response to those warnings that Holmes GAVE UP the title and then entered into negotiations with (and ultimately signed to fight) Coetzee.

As I said, you can criticize Holmes for his actions prior to giving up the title without mentioning the prospective Coetzee fight, but the actual act of GIVING UP THE TITLE itself is still tied to the Coetzee fight no matter how you dice it.

I know it was "politics" that made Frazier worth as much as $3 million. My point was that IF Page was really considered such an outstanding challenger at that time, he still should never have been worth less than anyone like Frazier regardless of any "politics" going on at that time. Coetzee was worth at minimum twice, if not three times more than what Frazier was, for example.

And if you really do consider Page as being such a big deal in late '83, your focus should be on why Holmes was getting screwed out of potential millions at that time, rather than criticizing him for not simply going along with it.

That's not true, he'd also held the Ring Magazine Title since at least December '81, and continued to retain that title even after giving up the WBC title. And the Ring's #1 contender as of the end of '83 was Coetzee, not Page.

Aside from that, he was recognized by the general public as the lineal champ following his win over Ali, and that recognition also did not waver after he gave up the WBC title - hence the Coetzee fight being billed as "The People's Choice." He also gained IBF recognition as champion almost as soon as he gave up the WBC title.

Fair enough, on that point.

Your comment was this:

Whether or not he was previously uninterested in fighting Dokes, no one knows what "would've" happened "if" Dokes had beaten Coetzee - especially if he had raised his stock by impressively bombing out Coetzee rather than vice versa happening. What we DO know is that when the fight was over, Holmes pursued (and ultimately signed to fight) the guy who had just won the fight impressively.

Trying to imply that Holmes was somehow being more "selective" or was taking the "easier" route by pursuing Coetzee after he blasted out Dokes is an unfair and rather contradictory point.

Even if it was only "one" time, you should at least be giving him credit for doing what you say you always wanted him to do in that one instance, rather than looking for angles to try to discredit and criticize him in that instance.

 

Exactly.

 

The way Holmes did business the last few years of his reign indicates that he was a great businessman but lousy heavyweight champion!

 

****, man, are we gonna beat the 'Larry Holmes' legacy to death here? The man is a solid top-10 ATG heavyweight champion... Everyone from some era, past or present, has missed out on a fight or bypassed a fighter...

I just did a review of "Holmes-Bey" from my '85 video. Bey was game and puttin' the heat on Holmes in rds 1 thru 5, but then he gased a bit and Holmes found his groove and began assuming control... Holmes TKO 10 Bey....

Carl Williams was green in May 1985 with only around 15 pro fights, but at age 25 and a lean 212 pounds, Carl "The Lie" Williams was a damn capable boxer to contend in 1985.... He and Holmes boxed a damn good 15 rounder with good skill and finess being displayed.... Holmes W15 Williams...

Give Holmes some credit for cryin' out loud...

SR.BILL