Tim Witherspoon W 12 Greg Page 1984

Where do you rank him historically Bill, firstly overall as a heavyweight and secondly head to head only?

 

I give Holmes credit and his props cuz he was the champ during my Jr. High and High School yrs.... He was the king of the hill while I was growing up.... I place him at # 2 on my top-10 ATG list of heavyweights, but anywhere in the top-10 is reasonable....

Pound-4-pound? Larry Holmes has got to be rated in the top-50 of ATG fighters of any weight.....

I think a prime 1980 Holmes of around 211 to 213 pounds was fast, accurate, spry, durable and had an amazing jab and good right hand power.... He was a boxer first and a puncher second.... Quite skilled in his heyday.....

MR.BILL:deal

 

Head to head Bill, not P4P. As a heavyweight.

 

i agree. Holmes was great. and it is fair to have him among the top 10 heavies of all time. I think he ranks above anyone who has come since him. tyson, holyfield, Lewis - holmes was greater than all three i believe. I suppose the klitschkos have a chance of going ahead of him but not yet.

still think its clear that he ducked the toughest fights later in his reign - (and he didn't have much great opposition early in his reign either). well he ducked the fights that were percived to be toughst but ended up with some tough ones anyway ... witherspoon, smith and williams.

 

I gotta rate Holmes in the top-5.... Holmes and Ali had the speed and style to give anyone fits from any era of heavyweight boxing dating back to 1887..... I actually place Holmes # 2, just behind Ali.....

I prefer the stylists over rock hard punchers.....

I think Holmes and Ali would edge past guys like "Johnson & Louis." Oh, some great matches there between them four dude's, but I think Holmes and Ali do just fine....

Also, regardless if folks wanna rag and **** on Lenny Lewis for being bland or supposedly having a glass-jaw, he actually turned into a damn good fighter with a long jab and brutal power under Manny Steward's watch... On any given night, Lewis might be the best ever.?.?

Now old farts who are senile like Bert Sugar can ramble on and on how Buzzard Charles and Rocco Marciano were two of the best ever, and they were too in circa 1950s, but as far as being able to contend in any era of heavyweight boxing, both would be butchered with many post 60s heavies.......

MR.BILLbbb

 

Cheers Bill, good on ya.

 

Holmes gets a lot of credit. But him having ducked certain deserving fighters in the second half (or thereabouts) of his reign is a worthy topic. I mean, Holmes admitted to not wanting to fight certain guys, so it should be easy to accept that Holmes, from at least '83 onwards, did not select guys who he felt were a threat. I don't know about you, but in my view, a champion is obligated to fight the very best. I realize that many other champions have avoided fighters, but this is a thread about Larry Holmes and fighters in his generation, so, naturally, Holmes and his actions are in the spotlight!

 

Aside from Holmes being a 300 + pound fat ass in 2012, he's still pretty wealthy and seems to be fine with his life, where as his former top contenders like "Page, Thomas and Dokes" are either dead, broke or dying slowly with liver cancer...... I'd rather be in Holmes' shoes in '12.......

Yeah, Holmes has sold his gym and old Rolls Royce, but he's just sweeping out the barn in 2011 / 2012 and over 60 years of age.... He doesn't need or use certain things no more..... Holmes ain't broke; just weeding out the garden......

MR.BILL:hat

 

Good for him. Like I said, he was a brilliant businessman. But I crack up when I watch the fighter interviews at the end of the Champions Forever video and Larry Holmes says that he wants to be remembered as a fighter who gave opportunities to deserving fighters or some such thing. LOL....Yeah, I guess in Holmes' mind a "deserving" fighter was a fighter who wasn't too dangerous or skilled! :yep But anyways, damn, Holmes needs to seriously get on Weight Watchers or something. He makes Foreman look like a light heavyweight nowadays.

 

Be as it may be, Lawrence Holmes still fought throughout his entire career some of the best competition ever that's just south of dude's like what Ali and Holy fought...... How can that be discounted???

So Holmes never fought "Page, Thomas or Dokes" in 1983 thru 1985... Nobody gives a **** anymore...... Holmes went on to fight dude's like "Mike Spinks, Tyson, Mercer, Holy, Ferguson, McCall and Butterbean." Not too bad for a man 35 yrs and older.......

MR.BILL

 

Bully for Holmes Bill, that doesn't neccessarily make him any better than the others, just more fortunate.

I'd agree he set himself up really well, but i'm loathe to look down upon the misfortunae of others.

Having said that i have no sympathy for the grub that is Dokes.

Well people do, that's why it's being discussed and you're getting defensive of him. for many such events have a bearing on their ATG lists, and we know how much we love lists in here

 

I got "Holmes-Cooney" rolling over some Old Crow and Pepsi.... I love to scope this fight out here and there when I'm tweaked..... Good memories of days / nights never to return......

MR.BILL

 

Cooney for being green like a bar of Irish Spring soap, did raise his game up to a respectable level when he challenged Holmes in June 1982.... For being hyped / green, Cooney performed well in his losing bid against Holmes via 13th round TKO...

MR.BILL

 

Nothing against Tim, but even he knew that Page and Don King were having their problems, and the losses against Witherspoon, Bey, and Tubbs were just going-though-the-motions type losses where Greg didn't just give a damn.He never should've left Butch Lewis.