Time to lay to rest the nonsense that Jack Johnson feasted on smaller opponents.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Jun 11, 2010.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
     
  2. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    93
    Nov 10, 2008
    If you think of the great trainers the early ones appeared in the 20's working with fighters and by 1930s they appeared to have been a regular appearance with fighters and more gyms started to spring up.
     
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    About 1820.
     
  4. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

    38,034
    93
    Nov 10, 2008
    Really, though?

    There may have been gyms but very few trainers.
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    66,217
    53,688
    Feb 11, 2005
    Good fighters don't go life and death with .500 fighters. He was passable at best. He beat a dozen fighters in his entire career, many of which he faced over and over, many of which beat him in return. Belts can be trinkets and sparring can just be practice. Results, however, are what interest me.
     
  6. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,744
    81
    Apr 4, 2010
    Interesting point. I'll add to it that I think this sort of reasoning holds merit not only because of the change in regulations post-Walker Law, but because by the time of the Walker Law, a lot of the old school had retired or were on their way out as fighters and on their way in as trainers. Guys like Jack Blackburn for instance, one of the best technicians of his day, was by this time looking to pass on his expertise to the young up and comers. I think the period from the early 20's to the late 30's was probably the biggest developmental stage, and one of the most interesting as a result, in the sport's history.
     
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    28,695
    14,074
    Jan 4, 2008
    I'm inclined to agree.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

    98,716
    30,652
    Jun 2, 2006
    Excellent presentation J!
     
  9. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    279
    Oct 4, 2005
    More or less. Like I stated before: he never fought Mcvey when he was in his prime, and he was one of the bigger guys of that time.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    You should know by now that what you are looking at on boxrec is a fragment of these fighters records, basicaly their records at or around world level.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    There have always been a myriad of good trainers.

    In 1850s Britain a fighter would mhave enjoyed prety much the same suport system as in 1930s America e.g. manager, trainer, corner crew, gym.
     
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    66,217
    53,688
    Feb 11, 2005

    Well aware. I use their records for that time period only as a relative measure not an absolute...
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    For what it is worth, here are some contemporary opinions of Martin:

    "He is young, almost if not quite as clever as Ruhlin, can punch harder, is ambitious and thoroughly game. Of all the men now looming up on the pugilistic horizon not one has better qualifications for usurping the title than he. The next champion will be a black man, mark the prediction".

    The Police Gazette

    "No we wont fight a negro for the championship. Supose we were to fight Martin and be defeates which does not seem possible. America would have to bow to a negro champion"

    Bill Delaney (Jeffries manager)

    "Johnson put a terific crimp in the championship aspirations of Denver Ed Martin, the giant black who we all thought a year ago was the legitimate sucessor to the title"

    The Police Gazette
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    66,217
    53,688
    Feb 11, 2005
    Good Lord, Bill Armstrong must have seen as a Collosus then...
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    71,997
    28,008
    Feb 15, 2006
    Armstrong was never as well regarded as Martin despite their series. He was known as something of a terror in sparring.

    However the San Francisco examiner listed him as a possible sucessor to Bob Fitzsimmons as champion.

    "Then there is the big negro Bob Armstrong of Chicago. He is making his way to the front by slow stages, and the only reason advanced for his failure to pit himself against good men is that the good men wont meet him"