Time to lay to rest the nonsense that Jack Johnson feasted on smaller opponents.

I am glad that has been noted.

 

Old Fogey,

I am being taken out of context here. To clarify, I did say twice that I believe Marcaino ( a favorite of yours ) had a better chin than Sharkey, but not by a wide margin.

My counter point to ponder was Sharkey fought more punchers, and had less equipment to deal with punches. See I can be objective and honest at the same time. I see no double standard here. It appears you are mistaken, and the poster McVey will be disappointed.

Yes--Sharkey was floored by McCoy. You can read this in the other thread.

No one here is claiming Sharkey is a top 10 all time great. In fact I don't see him as a top 30 all time great. Yet many here do see Johnson as a top 10 all time great, and his lack of punch resistance by middle weights
should seriously make one question where he would rate among heavyweight greats.

I am glad you see that as a reasonable point.

 

I see Johnson as a top ten ATG heavyweight.
Even if the KD of Johnson by Ketchel was on the level.The fact that Johnson got up and kod Ketchel does not lead me to believe he was in any way discommoded.
It was 1901 when Choynsky kod a green Johnson , it would be 1915 before he would be kod again ,at the age of 37 and after 26 rds,and 62 fights, during which years , he was floored ONCE.
Johnson would then go until 1926, before failing to finish a fight ,at the age of 48.
Some weak chin.
Just keep that hate boiling.:good

 

Some historians claim Stanley Ketchel hit as hard as bob fitzsimmons.

 

More like keep the correction coming. :good It seems your celebration from Old Fogey's post was shall we say premature.

Johnson had 25+ known fights before Choynski capped him in three rounds. Not exactly green.

Your choice of dates is not technically correct either. As we known Gunboat Smith TKO'd Johnson as champion in a 4 round exhibition match.

 

Everyone but you ,the rabid Johson hater,concedes that Johnson was green when he fought Choynsky.
You would not concede that Langford was experienced when he fought Johnson , though he had twice the number of fights,[50] , Johnson had when he met Choynsky.
Smith put Johnson through the ropes in a sparring session ,he himself NEVER clamed otherwise ,stop regurgitating the same bull ****
.FACT FROM 1901 to 1915 JOHNSON WAS FLOORED ONCE, AND,THERE IS SOME SPECULATION IT WAS A STAGED KD.

.FACT JOHNSON WENT14 YEARS, UNTIL BEING KO AT THE AGE OF 37 ,AFTER 26RDS.
FACT. JOHNSON WENT A FURTHER 11YEARS, BEFORE BEING STOPPED AGAIN AT 48 YEARS OLD.

 

1. "Yes--Sharkey was floored by McCoy. You can read this in the other thead."

Why should I? I posted the New York Times report on the fight.

2. Johnson is certainly a strong candidate for the top ten for most, for the top five for many. I personally wouldn't put Sharkey in a top fifty, but you did argue that his chin, despite four knockout defeats while still a young man, and despite being knocked down and according to the Times almost knocked out by the 156 lb McCoy, had a chin near the undefeated Marciano who suffered only two flash knockdowns to champions weighing 196 and 188 lbs. As Sharkey and Johnson fought in the same era, and you dismiss Sharkey's ko's and kd's because of "small gloves", why does this excuse not also apply to Johnson?

3. "Marciano (a favorite of yours)"

The logical fallacy here is technically known as ad hominem circumstancial. The related logical error ad hominem abusive is to simply attack someone directly as being "stupid" or "corrupt" or some such. Ad hominem circumstancial is to attack someone for their beliefs. The problem is EVERYONE has beliefs and so is "biased" and this sort of comment says nothing at all about the validity of the arguments they put forward.

 

Archie Moore--You consider 188 lbs a middleweight?

 

This is a funny Alt.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

Jack Johnson fought plenty of great heavyweights during his reign as coloured champ, detractors know nothing.

 

Claims, claims, claims, middleweights can't beat heavyweights, so and so was only 168, so and so was 175 blah blah blah blah blah blahatsch Come on people just watch the video - that was not a real knockdown at all - anyone who can't see that is either blind or completely deluding themselves (I'm sorry but I can't really take anybody seriously as a credible boxing fan/historian who can't see that one was completely fake:--() - the punch when straight over the top of Johnson's head - there was NO connection point!!!??? Watch the arc of the swing - at no point does it stop for connection with anything!!!?? Watch the video on youtube - it's simple - that whole Ketchel-Johnson bout was totally bogus Johnson moved his own leg out and pitched forward on his own before the punch had even got halfway to him - realised it looked ridiculously fake so did some pretend "ooo i can't get up??:? ooo no I can" to ham it up even more and then he blasted Ketchel out as soon as he got back up - simple as?? Why can't people see it??