Time Tunnel, Sonny Liston in 1962 defends his title against 1970 Joe Frazier.

lol I remember you flipping out a year or 2 back at Rez I think it was.

 

Yes i do remember that LOL

 

Like I said, it's pure speculation and easy to look back in hindsight like a tough guy claiming what you would or wouldn't do if threatened by the NOI or the mob. Ditto for other boxers who faced Ali and didn't get threatened. Holding that against Liston is silly. Yes he "chose" to quit but it would have been stupid to go out there and just get his ass kicked while swinging wildly with one good arm and unable to even block properly.

He couldn't even raise his arm. What is the freaking point of continuing a boxing match with one good arm? He would have just gotten completely out boxed or picked apart and stopped within 2 rounds tops if Ali became aggressive. Literally no point. The loss stands out because no other heavyweight champion besides Willard lost the title on the stool and the title was considered the most glorious and manly title in America back then so people just couldn't accept it even with proof he got operation on his arm.

Well now you're shifting the goal post. The original claim was that Liston was a better boxer than Foreman and now you're making it about who was the better "fighter" or who would win h2h which are totally separate conversations.

Yes I have a Liston avatar. I haven't said anything that is historically inaccurate or illogical. Try addressing my points instead of getting side tracked. You do realize we are WAY off subject and no longer discussing Liston vs Frazier? Last time addressing the whole Liston heart/quitting thing. It would not be a factor prime vs prime. He would not be pressured by shady organizations, nor would he be out of shape or having a bad arm injury.

 

It is what it is .. I tended to over react to negative types rather than ignore and then you go down the rabbit hole .. no need for that I guess.

 

Great post ... guys have been stepping up on this thread !

 

Well acting like being threatened by actual gangsters is no big deal and saying things like "he should have gone out on his shield" came across as you looking down on Liston.

I was moreso talking about the comparison with Liston and other fighters if they were in his shoes. We have no idea how they'd react. He had arguably one of the worst upbringings in boxing history.

You haven't said anything remotely profound, intelligent, or interesting. Certainly not when you "pointed" out that Liston chose to quit. Nobody said he didn't have a choice.

Being threatened with death, poverty, jail, or having family members killed doesn't leave a person with much of a "choice" now does it? It's not like he had the support and admiration of the public or the police.

And that would be stupid. Thank God you're not a trainer. He literally had one functional arm.

In terms of boxing skill he is.

Because you are obsessed and you keep bringing it up as if its a likely deciding factor in the match. But like I said, I'm not gonna bother arguing with someone whose so certain about something that's been hotly debated for decades.

Very ironic you're accusing me of getting side tracked when I pointed out to you we're way off topic and suggested sticking to Frazier vs Liston at least 2-3x and yet here you are once again focusing on the subject of Liston quitting.

 

We've all done it mate. To be frank sometimes it's needed.

 

Yeah I agree, I remember in your situation you were more than justified.

 

Cheers mate.

 

Best post. And it applies on every thread regarding hypothetical matchups