Timeline of the premiere LW in the world.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Nov 23, 2011.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Jack McAuliffe: (feb)1886-(december)1894 [vacates claim whilst lavigne beats bowen]

    Kid Lavigne: (december)1894- (july)1899 [loses to erne]
    Frank Erne: (july)1898- (may)1902 [loses to gans]
    Joe Gans: (may)1902- (july)1908 [loses to nelson]
    Battling Nelson: (july)1908- (feb)1910 [loses to wolgast]
    Ad Wolgast (feb)1910-(feb)1911 [loses claim when wells beats welsh]

    Matt Wells: (feb)1911-(april)1912 [loses to mcfarland]
    Packey Mcfarland: (april)1912-(november)1912 [vacates claim whilst ritchie beats wolgast]

    Willie Ritchie: (november)1912-(may)1914 [loses to white]
    Charlie White: (may)1914-(december)1914 [loses to shugrue]
    Joe Shugrue: (december)1914-(march)1916 [retires his claim whilst leonard beats welsh]

    Leonard: (march)1916-(july)1916 [loses to welsh]
    Freddie Welsh: (july)1916-(may)1917 [loses to leonard]
    Benny Leonard: (jan)1916-(feb)1925 [retires claim whilst mandell beats terris]

    Sammy Mandell: (feb)1925-(may)1925 [loses to goodrich]
    Jimmy Goodrich: (may)1925-(december)1925 [loses to Rocky Kansas]
    Rocky Kansas: (december)1925-(july)1926 [loses to mandell]
    Sammy Mandell: (july)1926-(november)1927 [loses claim when mclarnin beats wallace]

    Jimmy McLarnin: (november)1927-(may)1928 [loses to Mandell]
    Sammy Mandell: (may)1928-(july)1930 [loses to singer]
    Al Singer: (july)1930-(november)1930 [loses to canzoneri]
    Tony Canzoneri: (november)1930-(march)1931 [loses to fuller]
    Sammy Fuller: (march)1931-(april)1931 [loses claim when canzoneri beats berg]

    Tony Canzoneri: (april)1931-(jan)1932 [loses to jadick]
    Johnny Jadick (jan)1932-(feb)1933 [deserved to shaw]
    Battling Shaw: (feb)1933-(may)1933 [loses to canzoneri]
    Tony Canzoneri: (may)1932-(june)1933 [loses to ross]
    Barney Ross: (june)1933-(may)1935 [vacates claim whilst canzoneri beats ambers]

    Tony Canzoneri: (may)1935-(september)1936 [loses to ambers]
    Lou Ambers: (september)1936-(august)1938 [loses to armstrong]
    Henry Armstrong: (august)1938-(may)1940 [loses claim when angott beats day]

    Sammy Angott: (may)1940-(july)1941 [loses to robinson]
    Ray Robinson: (may)1941-(december)1941 [vacates claim whilst angott beats jenkins]

    Sammy Angott: (december)1941-(december)1942 [vacates claim whilst jack beats larkin]

    Beau Jack: (december)1942-(may)1943 [loses to montgomery]
    Bob Montgomery: (may)1943-(november)1943 [loses to jack]
    Beau Jack: (november)1943-(march)1944 [loses to montgomery]
    Bob Montgomery: (march)1944-(april)1945 [vacates claim whilt williams beats zurrita]

    Ike Williams: (april)1945-(june)1945 [loses to joyce]
    Willie Joyce: (june)1945-(november)1945 [loses to stolz]
    Allie Stolz: (november)1945-(june)1946 [loses to montgomery]
    Bob Montgomery: (june)1946-(august)1946 [loses to mouzon]
    Wesley Mouzon: (august)1946-(november)1946 [loses to montgomery]
    Bob Montgomery: (november)1946-(august)1947 [loses to williams]
    Ike Williams: (august)1947-(november)1950 [loses claim when davis beats dawson]

    John L Davis: (november)1950-(may)1951 [loses claim when carter beats williams]

    Jimmy Carter: (may)1951-(august)1951 [loses to aragon]
    Art Aragon: (august)1951-(november)1951 [loses to carter]
    Jimmy Carter: (november)1951-(may)1952 [loses to salas]
    Lauro Salas: (may)1952-(ocotber)1952 [loses to carter]
    Jimmy Carter: (october)1952-(march)1954 [loses to de marco]
    Paddy De Marco: (march)1954-(november)1954 [loses to carter]
    Jimmy Carter: (november)1954-(june)1955 [loses to smith]
    Wallace Smith: (june)1955-(august)1956 [loses to brown]
    Joe Brown: (feb)1956-(december)1960 [loses to campari]
    Girodano Camprari: (december)1960-(may)1961 [loses to ellorde]
    Flash Elorde: (may)1961-(april)1962 [loses to kosaka]
    Teruo Kosaka: (april)1962-(august)1962 [loses to elorde]
    Flash Elorde: (august)1962-(december)1962 [loses claim when ortiz beats kosaka]

    Carlos Ortiz: (december)1962-(april)1965 [loses to laguna]
    Ismael Laguna: (april)1965-(november)1965 [loses to ortiz]
    Carlos Ortiz: (november)1965-(june)1968 [loses to cruz]
    Carlos Cruz: (june)1968-(feb)1969 [loses to ramos]
    Mando Ramos: (feb)1969-(march)1970 [loses to laguna]
    Ismael Laguna: (march)1970-(september)1970 [loses to buchanan]
    Ken Buchanan: (september)1970-(june)1972 [loses to duran]
    Roberto Duran: (june)1972-(feb)1973 [loses claim when de jesus beat lampkin]

    Esteban De Jesus: (Feb)1973-(March)1974 [loses to Duran]
    Roberto Duran: (march)1974-(april)1979 [vacates claim whilst watt beats pitalua]

    Jim Watt: (april)1979-(june)1981 [loses to arguello]
    Alexis Arguello: (june)1981-(july)1982 [vacates claim whilst mancini bets espana]

    Ray Mancini: (july)1982-(june)1984 [loses to bramble]
    Livingstone Bramble: (june)1984-(november)1984 [loses claim when ramirez beats rosario]

    Jose Ramirez: (november)1984-(august)1985 [loses to camacho]
    Hector Camacho: (august)1985-(september)1986 [loses claim when rosario beats bramble]

    Edwin Rosario: (september)1986-(november)1987 [loses to chavez]
    Julio Chavez: (november)1987-(august)1988 [vacates belt whilst whittaker beats ramirez]

    Pernell Whittaker: (august)1988-(august)1992 [vacates belt whilst gonzalez beats rocha]

    Miguel Gonzalez: (august)1992-(may)1995 [loses claim when de la hoya beats ruelas]

    Oscar De La Hoya: (may)1995-(december)1996 [vacates claim whilst holiday beats robinson]

    Phillip Holiday: (december)1996-(august)1997 [loses to mosley]
    Shane Mosley: (august)1997-(august)1999 [vacates claim whilst johnston beats manfredy]

    Stevie Johnston: (august)1999-(june)2000 [loses to castillo]
    Jose Luis Castillo: (june)2000-(april)2002 [loses to mayweather]
    Floyd Mayweather: (april)2002-(june)2004 [vacates claim whilst castillo beats lazcano]

    Jose Luis Castillo: (june)2004-(may)2005 [loses to corrales]
    Diego Corrales: (may)2005-(october)2006 [loses to casamayor]
    Joel Casamayor: (october)2006-(april)2007 [loses claim when diaz beats freitas]

    Juan Diaz: (april)2007-(march)2008 [loses to campbell]
    Nate Campbell: (march)2008-(feb)2009 [vacates claim whilst marquez beats diaz]

    Juan Manuel Marquez: (feb)2009-present [premiere lw (impending vacation is imminent)]
     
    lufcrazy, Nov 23, 2011
    lufcrazy, Nov 23, 2011
    #1
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Very difficult this timeline, There was a good period of years were fights at 136, 137 were relevant to my rankings bu then when the 140 division was in existence there became a distinct difference between fights above the LW limit and fights in the LWW division.

    Quite a lot of claims are affected in this way so it becomes very difficult to decide who the top LW is at any given point after the 30's or so. especially when two LW guys are fighting at 138-139 pounds.

    Flas ellorde has a solid claim IMO and I'm willing to stand by that.

    McFarland also has a solid claim.

    Other than that it's fairly non-controversial until the more recent times I think.

    I'm assuming Marquez has now left the division hence my view on rios (no other active LW comes close tbh)
     
    lufcrazy, Nov 23, 2011
    lufcrazy, Nov 23, 2011
    #2
  3. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You have some spelling mistakes with the first two guys on your list.

    Anyway, nice effort but I still go with the timeline of the real title for my "evaluation". ;)
     
    bodhi, Nov 23, 2011
    bodhi, Nov 23, 2011
    #3
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Thanks i'll correct them tonight :)

    Which title? World, lineal, ring, wbc, wba, wbo or ibf? So many to keep track of that's mainly why I wanted to do this through the divisions; which claimant is actually most deserving of being called champ.

    And in the not too distant past I remember you listing your champions by division :good
     
    lufcrazy, Nov 23, 2011
    lufcrazy, Nov 23, 2011
    #4
  5. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not sure McAuliffe was better than Carney.
    Unsure about Austin Gibbons being the best during that timespan.
    Walcott may have been able to make the limit, but really was a natural welterweight.
    Erne best in 1898 based on what? Not sure he was the best in 1900-1902 either, despite holding the title.
    Langford was not a lightweight in 1903.
     
    Senya13, Nov 23, 2011
    Senya13, Nov 23, 2011
    #5
  6. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Lineal one.

    Really, can´t remember that. As far as I know I only do the standard rankings. I think you might mix me up here. Anyway, lists are only for fun.
     
    bodhi, Nov 24, 2011
    bodhi, Nov 24, 2011
    #6
  7. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I am interested to heare the justification in leaving out Young Griffo, especially after he beat Mcauliffe, by your usual definitions.
     
    Boilermaker, Nov 24, 2011
    Boilermaker, Nov 24, 2011
    #7
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah you had cunningham as cw champion.
     
    lufcrazy, Nov 24, 2011
    lufcrazy, Nov 24, 2011
    #8
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    When I get back from school i'll respond to your's and boiler's questions.

    Firstly though, I thought jack was the obvious undisputed choice though i'll look into carney.
     
    lufcrazy, Nov 24, 2011
    lufcrazy, Nov 24, 2011
    #9
  10. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Langford was a lb over. Yeah, he beat Gans but sadly he misses out on that incredible feat as he didn't make the limit (IMO)
     
    Flea Man, Nov 24, 2011
    Flea Man, Nov 24, 2011
    #10
  11. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ah, yeah, remember, for current ones. Yeah, I considered Cunningham to be champ then since he beat Huck, the current number two, even though it was back in 2007. This is I admit was on shaky feets. You might have ranked Huck above him.
    Right now I guess it´s either Hernandez or Huck.
     
    bodhi, Nov 24, 2011
    bodhi, Nov 24, 2011
    #11
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Should this mean we view gans as the better lw in that exact period because of 1 lb?

    Robinson never weighed exactly under lw but he sometimes hit 137 when scoring monumental victories in the early 40's.

    Are the weights that close together at this point that I should be more strict with the weight limit? I'll happily redo it if that's the case.

    Counting everything from 133 to 137?
     
    lufcrazy, Nov 24, 2011
    lufcrazy, Nov 24, 2011
    #12
  13. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But we went through this on the welterweight thread.

    In november 2003 to December,an undefeated Jack Blackburn beats Joe Gans, Draws with Langford then loses to Holly.
    Langford (who lost to duane in June) beats GAns (after Blackburn beat him), draws with Blackburn and then Loses to Holly.
    Holly, who had been really struggling a year or so earlier started his golden run where he established a winning ledger against Gans, Blackburn and Langford.
    For Completeness Gans was struggling at this time, compared to the others although it was clearly close between all of them, Danny Duane, who had beaten Langford, Holly and Blackburn adn was the white champion was eliminated by some other loss. And Dixie Kid had an empressive win streak around this time but lesser names in comparison (with the exception of his controversial walcott fight).

    Either way, as with the Welterweight version, please explain how langford has any claim above these other two.


    Langford
     
    Boilermaker, Nov 24, 2011
    Boilermaker, Nov 24, 2011
    #13
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I was gonna pm you about dixie kid before, his win over barbados is bogus.

    This timeline is preliminary, i'm gonna go through with a better look at the actual weights of the fighters and including only weights between 132 and 137 because anything else is too close to another weight class.

    In the higher weights I could be more relaxed but from lw down the weights are very close together so I need to be more strict. I'm totally happy that any win or loss above 137 doesn't really affect how I view a lightweight.

    This isn't my finished article; I only spent one evening on it.

    I'm gonna review each choice but as a starting point it's pretty good I think.

    I'm playing poker tonight so it'll be tomorrow evening before I can make any amendments but I will look in much more detail especially with the points raised.

    Do you have any info on the duane loss for sam btw?
     
    lufcrazy, Nov 24, 2011
    lufcrazy, Nov 24, 2011
    #14
  15. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What 1 pound? Langford was 140 lbs (or even heavier) for that bout, 7 pounds above the accepted lightweight limit at the time (133 lbs).
     
    Senya13, Nov 24, 2011
    Senya13, Nov 24, 2011
    #15
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