Timeline of the premiere WW in the world.

Paddy Duffy: (october)1888-(feb)1891 [loses claim when ryan beats needham]

Tommy Ryan: (february)1891-(march)1893 [loses claim when smith beats williams]

Billy Smith: (april)1893-(july)1894 [loses to ryan]

Tommy Ryan: (july)1894-(august)1898 [vacates claim whilst smith beats matthews]

Billy Smith: (august)1998-(january)1900 [loses to ferns]
James Ferns: (january)1900-(october)1900 [loses to matthews]
Matty Matthews: (october)1900-(may)1901 [loses to ferns]
James Ferns: (may)1901-(december)1901 [loses to walcott]
Barbados Joe Walcott: (december)1901-(june)1904 [loses to jackson]
Young Peter Jackson: (june)1904-(jan)1906 [loses claim when gans beats sullivan]

Joe Gans: (jan)1906-(june)1906 [loses claim when walcott beats dougherty]

Barbados Joe Walcott: (juney)1906-(october)1906 [loses to melody]
Honey Melody: (october)1906-(april)1907 [loses to sullivan]
Mike Sullivan: (april)1907-(may)1909 [vacates claim whilst lewis beats melody]

Willie Lewis: (may)1909-(february)1910 [loses to lewis]
Harry Lewis (february)1910-(august)1910 [loses to houck]
Leo Houck: (august)1910-(january)1911 [vacates claim whilst mcfarland beats erne]

Packey McFarland: (january)1911-(march)1914 [retires claim whilst britton beats glover]

Jack Britton: (jan)1914-(august)1915 [loses to lewis]
Ted Kid Lewis: (august)1915-(november)1915 [loses to glover]
Mike Glover: (november)1915-(june)1916 [loses to lewis]
Ted Kid Lewis: (june)1916-(october)1916 [loses to britton]
Jack Britton: (october)1916-(may)1917 [loses to lewis]
Ted Kid Lewis: (may)1917-(september)1917 [loses to bartfield]
Soldier Bartfield: (september)1917-(september)1917 [loses to lewis]
Ted Kid Lewis: (september)1917-(march)1918 [loses to britton]
Jack Britton: (march)1918-(june)1918 [loses to leonard]
Benny Leonard: (june)1918-(march)1919 [loses claim when britton beats lewis]

Jack Britton: (march)1919-(november)1922 [loses to walker]
Mickey Walker: (november)1922-(may)1926 [loses to latzo]
Pete Lazto: (may)1926-(june)1927 [loses to dundee]
Joe Dundee: (june)1927-(september)1927 [loses to idrisiano]
Johnny Indrisano: (september)1927-(november)1927 [loses to hull]
Clyde Hull: (november)1927-(feb)1928 [loses to dundee]
Joe Dundee: (feb)1928-(august)1928 [loses to thompson]
Young Jack Thompson: (august)1928-(october)1928 [loses to fields]
Jackie Fields: (october)1928-(feb)1930 [loses to corbett 3]
Young Corbett III: (feb)1930-(may)1933 [loses to mclarnin]
Jimmy McLarnin: (may)1933-(may)1934 [loses to ross]
Barney Ross: (may)1934-(september)1934 [loses to mclarnin]
Jimmy McLarnin: (september)1934-(may)1935 [loses to ross]
Barney Ross: (may)1935-(may)1938 [loses to armstrong]
Henry Armstrong: (may)1938-(jan)1940 [loses claim when kid beats williams]

Cocoa Kid: (jan)1940-(ocotber)1940 [loses claim when zivic beats armstrong]

Fritzie Zivic: (october)1940-(april)1941 [loses to Kaplan]
Mike Kaplan: (april)1941-(september)1941 [loses to montgomery]
Bob Montgomery: (september)1941-(feb)1942 [loses claim when williams beats kid]

Holman Williams: (jan)1942-(feb)1942 [loses to burley]
Charley Burley: (feb)1942-(feb)1943 [vacates claim whilst robinson beats wilson]

Ray Robinson: (february)1943-(november)1950 [vacates belt whilst gavilan beats graham]

Kid Gavilan: (november)1950-(april)1955 [vacates his claim when de marco beats saxton]

Tony De Marco: (april)1955-(june)1955 [loses to basilio]
Carmen Basilio: (june)1955-(october)1957 [vacates claim whilst]

Virgil Akins: (october)1957-(september)1958 [loses to Flanagan]
Del Flanagan: (september)1958-(april)1959 [loses claim when jordan beats akins]

Don Jordan: (april)1958-(december)1959 [loses to thompson]
Luis Thompson: (december)1959-(december)1960 [loses to paret]
Benny Paret: (december)1960-(april)1961 [loses to griffith]
Emile Griffith: (april)1961-(march)1963 [loses to rodriguez]
Luis Rodriguez: (march)1963-(june)1964 [loses loses to griffith]
Emile Griffith: (june)1964-(july)1966 [vacates title whilst cokes beats rodriguez]

Curtis Cokes: (july)1966-(april)1969 [loses to napoles]
Jose Napoles: (april)1969-(december)1970 [loses to backus]
Billy Backus: (december)1970-(june)1971 [loses napoles]
Jose Napoles: (june)1971-(december)1975 [loses to stracey]
John Stracey: (december)1975-(june)1976 [loses to palomino]
Carlos Palomino: (june)1976-(january)1979 [loses to benitez]
Wilfred Benitez: (january)1979-(november)1979 [loses to leonard]
Ray Leonard: (november)1979-(june)1980 [loses to duran]
Roberto Duran: (june)1980-(august)1980 [loses claim when hearns beats cuevas]

Tommy Hearns: (august)1980-(september)1981 [loses to leonard]
Ray Leonard: (september)1981-(july)1982 [vacates claim whilst mccrory beats stafford]

Milton McCrory: (july)1982-(feb)1984 [loses claim when curry beats starling]

Don Curry: (feb)1984-(september)1986 [loses to honeyghan]
Lloyd Honeyghan: (september)1986-(october)1987 [loses to vaca]
Jorge Vaca: (october)1987-(march)1988 [loses to honeyghan]
Lloyd Honeyghan: (march)1988-(feb)1989 [loses to starling]
Marlon Starling: (feb)1989-(august)1990 [loses to blocker]
Maurice Blocker: (august)1990-(march)1991 [loses to brown]
Simon Brown: (march)1991-(november)1991 [loses to mcgirt]
James McGirt: (november)1991-(march)1993 [loses to whittaker]
Pernell Whittaker: (march)1993-(december)1994 [loses claim when trinidad beats carr]

Felix Trinidad: (december)1994-(september)1996 [loses claim when whittaker beats rivera]

Pernell Whittaker: (september)1996-(december)1997 [loses claim when de la hoya beats rivera]

Oscar De La Hoya: (december)1997-(june)2000 [loses to mosley]
Shane Mosley: (june)2000-(jan)2002 [loses to forrest]
Vernon Forrest: (jan)2002-(jan)2003 [loses to mayorga]
Ricardo Mayorga: (jan)2003-(december)2003 [loses to spinks]
Corey Spinks: (december)2003-(feb)2005 [loses to judah]
Zab Judah: (feb)2005-(jan)2006 [loses to baldomir]
Carlos Baldomir: (jan)2006-(november)2006 [loses to mayweather]
Floyd Mayweather: (november)2006-(july)2008 [retires claim whilst margarito beats cotto]

Antonio Margarito: (july)2008-(jan)2009 [loses to mosley]
Shane Mosley: (jan)2009-(may)2010 [loses to mayweather]
Floyd Mayweather: (may)2010-(may)2011 [loses claim when pacquiao beats mosley]

Manny Pacquiao: (may)2011-(present) [now there on an interim basis pending the result of mayweather's next fight]

 

Any thoughts so far?

I'm up to March 1918.

Wondering if soldier Bartfield might have a valid claim and perhaps benny leonard seems to have a sneaky claim round about this time also.

p.s. packey mcfarland was a legend.

 

Smith's claim is laughable imo and ryan was clearly a better ww during this time.

Sam was robbed against joe.

 

Ryan was more consistent from an earlier period in a better fashion. I see no reason for smith to be above and couldn't find any other worthy ww's.

From everything i've read sam deserved the fight against walcott. Therefore he's my pick for premiere ww.

I'll post some fight reports when i'm back at the computer but i'm sure you can access the same ones that I can.

 

It was a ww fight whereas the ypj fight wasn't at ww if I recall correctly.

The fights walcott lost during his title reign where all to middleweight and heavyweights where they not? The two ww fights I believe he lost where to sam and gans.

My point being, unless the ypj was near the ww limit, joe was the best ww in the world going into the sam fight. Sam was the best ww in the world coming out of the fight.

 

Ok I've looked in 1904 in a bit more detail and this is what I get.

Walcott is definitely out at the point of his loss to langford.

Holly was a lightweight during this time.

Gans takes the helm in january 1906 (maybe sooner is noone has a better claim) until july when he moved down to LW and Walcott returned successfully.

Langford moved up in 1905 and between the walcott and moving up he went unbeaten against the likes of walcott, holly and blackburn (knocking out elbows shortly before)

young peter had definitely left the weight class in september 04. prior to this he'd knocked out barbados joe at a "catchweight"

does anyone have any further information on the catchweight?

I'm happy to recognise jackson from the knockout until he leaves the division if the catchweight is one of them were it's really a ww fight but joe didn't want his title on the lined.

that would then give a linearity like

walcott: - june04
jackson: june04-september04
langford: september 04-february05
gans: february05-july06
walcott: july06-

I am content langford did enough to defeat walcott

Langford, a novice fighter with veteran-like skills at the time, put himself in position to challenge welterweight champion Joe Walcott "The Barbados Demon" with victories against such fighters as George McFadden (for reference, McFadden had a knockout of Joe Gans on his dossier), Willie Lewis, and Joe Gans. Though the victories were very important in establishing confidence and experience in Langford, Walcott was a bigger man, a harder puncher who had reached the peak of his legendary career. The bout took place in Massachusetts and some sources put this down as a title defense for Walcott. Langford, with his younger legs and quicker hands, outboxed Walcott for the majority of the first seven rounds. In the eighth however, Tom O'Rourke pleaded for Walcott to pick up the pace and carry the fight to the Boston pugilist. This Walcott did and began to rip shots to the body. However, Langford showed tremendous heart and began to connect with well timed counter shots while slowing down the onslaught of Walcott. In the 13th, Walcott nailed Langford with a right hand and followed up with a right to the heart that nearly downed Langford. Langford again fought courageously in the proceeding round after he took a beating and he stunned and infuriated the champion with a combination. Walcott, so angry by the plucky fight Langford was putting up, refused to shake hands with him before the final bell. They fought savagely to finish the bout in the final frame and the verdict was a draw. Many reporters ringside disagreed with the decision and the two never had a chance to battle once more because the young and growing Langford gradually put enough weight on to become a heavyweight fighter.


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"Langford was built for fighting. He had a small waist, huge chest, and arms that reached below his knees. In fact, his arm span was over six feet. He Was getting heavier and more powerful. As a welterweight he soon disposed of all the best boxers in that class. And then he got his chance at the title. September 5,1904, and he was in the ring with Joe Walcott. The welterweight champion of the world. Walcott was considered the greatest welterweight of any age, stood only 5' 1" and weighed 145. Being built like a wrestler, he looked as if nothing could knock him down. The referee stood back. The fight was on. Langford set a whirlwind pace and slugged away at Walcott's elusive, weaving body. Walcott was on the defensive. But In round eight, Walcott came out of his shell and for four rounds beat a tattoo of blows on Langford. The fourteenth round Sam leaped out of his chair and before Walcott could even cover up, connected with a right hand swing and two uppercuts. Walcott's face was marked with blood. The champion saw that the title was slipping from his grasp. He forgot all about style and just waded in. Sam stood up to him and returned blow for blow. The final bell rang and they were still at It. The referee had in break them apart. The judge's decision, a draw! The spectators booed and hollered and some even climbed into the ring to protest. "Langford is the champion!" they shouted. And that was the opinion of the newspapermen. The sports editor of the New York Illustrated News wrote, "My personal opinion is that Langford was entitled to the verdict, and should have been awarded the world's title."



...............................

The following year Sam got his chance at welterweight champion Joe Walcott, the Barbados Demon. The Sept 24, National Police Gazette reported, “Although the mill went the limit and was called a draw there were plenty present who thought Langford won. Up to the seventh round Walcott was unable to do anything with Langford. The latter (Langford) got away from his opponents leads and punched back with him. One of the swings, which caught Walcott on the jaw, almost put Joe out. In the tenth round Walcott, who was nettled because he could not catch Langford, began to slug. Langford though, was willing to mix it up and gave Walcott plenty to do, at the same time outboxing him.” Arthur Lumley, sports editor of the New York Illustrated News wrote, "My personal opinion is that Langford was entitled to the verdict, and should have been awarded the world's title." The 15 round “draw” was the only title shot Sam would ever get.

 

haha these things take time :good

 

For me, up until 04 barbados demon is the clear choice as top man.

Giving ypj the benefit of the doubt regarding catchweight, he takes joe's claim as his own until he moves up.

In a way it's like sam and joe then fight for the right to be king which sam wins. He's king till he moves up.

06 is clearly gans until he moves back down.