Tito Ortiz, where do you rank him in LHW history

Not really because I highlighted what he lacked in making the "just imagine" reality.

I think he did have serious issues with divorcing, issues with jenna, neck injuries, falling out with dana etc but often felt like they were excuses to hide the fact he wasn't really good enough in terms of fitness or skills.

I think once his double take down/gnp was figured out by a new era of more complete fighters he struggled big time. He evolved some in his submission defence, submission attacks etc but it never made up for the fact he wasn't very fast, wasn't very powerful and perhaps strength/short arms was his true ability but the he lacked the fitness to ever look good for long periods of time.

 

I too hold his weak defences against him but give him credit for non title wins over top fighters who are still plying their trade today.

 

i always recall watching a ufc show where dana said that all the very best lhws were sent to liddell to fight, and the rest to tito.
is that true?
although i prefer chuck to tito, i wish tito had of beaten chuck on one occasion, coz sometimes i've felt sorry for tito.
i've always had the impression that a lot of people, including ufc fighters, have a bit of a laugh at him.

 

Evolved? When did Tito ever evolve? He was a basic single leg double leg wrestler who looked for the takedown and then smashed you up with brutal elbows and GnP. That was pretty much all it ever was from him. In that respect id place him on the same level as every guy that ever come out of Hammerhouse.
That said its hard to have him in the top 10 even despite his name, fame and making the UFC a name brand. That guy along with Chuck was once the face of the brand. He also has some great wins. His most significant win was probably over Ken. In probably one of the most brutal displays of GnP he literally destroyed whatever hype Ken had left.

 

Tito wanted no part of Chuck. He knew how that was going to end and made numerous excuses for not making the bout. The result was a foregone conclusion.

 

I remember those days very clearly. Tito FLATLY refused to fight Chuck. He knew he was going to get KO'ed as Chuck was going on a tear and was willing to fight everyone. He was in the PRIDE GP as one of the favourites and was KO'ing every notable name in sight. Tito meanwhile kept citing injury's to delay the inevitable.

 

Tito had ZERO interest. Dana wanted to make the fight. Fans were begging for the fight. Liddell even came into the Octagon after one of Tito's fights and pointedly told him to take the fight. Tito came back with some bull**** about he needed to rehab some injurys or some bollocks. There was a lot of bad blood between those two and the feud was real. Chuck was jealous of Tito's prestige, fame and the belt he coveted as well as Tito being the face of the UFC commanding top dollar. And Tito really played the heel well and was equally vilified and loved by others. He was a brash, mouthy and was hated in equal measure.
I don't recall those contract negotiations but i do recall Tito almost getting involved in a brawl after he fought Belfort i think in the cage with Liddell and Shamrock. Long and short was he mouthed off and both got in the cage to give it back. Was a great Promo for the UFC.

 

If i remember though that was after he had fought both? He tooled Ken in their first match. And got KTFO when he fought Chuck. Chuck was more than happy to do it again. And by the time he fought Ken again no one was really interested as Ken was so old and shop worn he was spitting dust.

 

I'm actually watching UFC 10 in my collection at the mo. Feeling a bit sentimental now :yep
Was great watching the old UFC's back in the day.

 

Just had a snoop through my collection and it was UFC 40 it happened at dude. Ortiz started a contract dispute with the UFC as he didn't want to fight Chuck and he was hoping he would make millions off the bout. To be fair to him he and Chuck were very close. But Dana and Lorenzo knew the kind of money that bout would make, and the promotion around that time was hemorrhaging cash.
Chuck though was pretty much a throw back and was happy to fight despite their 'friendship'. Tito on the other hand was a businessman and wanted the money. He did feel betrayed by it all but the reality was he knew he was going to loose his title, as Chuck and Tito routinely rolled together and every time Chuck owned him in the gym.