To all those who say Jones could/should have fought Eubank, Benn and/or Collins

stonerose · Nov 4, 2008

pretty good post. and you're right, where benns concerned my heart maybe does rule my noggin .

Bodysnatcher · Nov 4, 2008

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JonOli · Nov 4, 2008

Eubank wanted no part in the likes of Toney, or Jones - or going stateside - and he was very candid about it. Unlike Benn he was unwilling to travel.

DINAMITA · Nov 4, 2008

Bodysnatcher said:

PACFAN84, I think that's a good argument. I agree that weight class issues and circumstances made all those fights very difficult to make.

However, I also remember you criticising Calzaghe for not trying to make pre-2006 fights with Felix Trinidad, Winky Wright, James Toney, Darius Michalczewski and Steve Collins, where the circumstances and weight classes were just as strong, if not stronger, that the RJJ vs Eubank/Benn/Collins issues.

Listing extensive reasons why certain fights can't happen is fine, but it's just a sheme you can't apply your exacting standards equally across the board.
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I did not criticize him for not fighting them, I merely presented a list of people who fought in or around the weight division he did for a period of 9 years in which the best fighter he fought was Byron Mitchell, and asked why not one fight could have been made with any of them.

If I mentioned Toney then that was wrong of me, as Toney was at cruiserweight by the time Joe won the supermiddleweight belt so that was a no-go, as was Trinidad, but others like Michalczewski etc, those fights were there to be made.

You can't seriously tell me that in the 9 years from 1997-2006 that THE best fighter that a fight could possibly have been made with was Byron Mitchell??

sitiyzal · Nov 4, 2008

TIME-BOMB said:

couldnt have agreed more!, he would have destroyed them all!
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Then I guess you're not very bright.

h2hkiller · Nov 4, 2008

About Dariusz, he fought a life and death struggle against Richard Hall, who was a moving punching bag against RJJ, and lost to Gonzalez, who was slightly more competitve than Richard against RJJ.

The only way RJJ would have lost against Dariusz would be if they fought in Germany.

sitiyzal · Nov 4, 2008

h2hkiller said:

About Dariusz, he fought a life and death struggle against Richard Hall, who was a moving punching bag against RJJ, and lost to Gonzalez, who was slightly more competitve than Richard against RJJ.

The only way RJJ would have lost against Dariusz would be if they fought in Germany.
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:roll:....boxrec n00b. With that brilliant logic we should also point out Jones' two ko losses to lesser fighters than DM.

SAS2 · Nov 4, 2008

PACFAN84 said:

I posted this explanation on another thread recently, but I think it's worth it's own thread since this accusation that Jones ducked/avoided/did not pursue fights with Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn and/or Steve Collins seems to be gaining popularity these days.

And it simply isn't true.

Benn lost his title to Sugarboy Malinga in March 1996 (FYI Jones had dominated and stopped Malinga years earlier). Eubank lost his title to Steve Collins in March 1995. Jones only moved up to supermiddleweight in November 1994 when he fought a far bigger name and more highly rated fighter, James Toney.

So really he could probably never have fought Eubank. There was 5 months between Jones-Toney and Eubank-Collins. For all we know, Eubank-Collins could have been arranged prior to November, thus meaning the fight could never have happened. Even if the fight wasn't planned until a while after the Jones-Toney fight, is it really right to criticize Jones for not taking a unification fight in his very 1st defence at a new weight? Is it really right to criticize Jones when we don't know how much money Eubank, as an established star in Britain, would have been looking for to leave his comfort zone in the UK or to consider losing in the UK against Jones (p4p#1 or 2 immediately after the Toney fight)? Jones was not huge box office back then remember. He was a rising star, but not a superstar with a huge following of fans in 1994, so he didn't have massive funds behind him.

To mention Benn is similarly short-sighted. It was well-known at the time that a superfight between Jones Jr and Gerald McClennan was under discussion. McClennan challenged Benn to win his title and make a Jones-McClennan fight a huge unification bout at 168. Was McClennan thought to be a more dangerous fighter than Benn at the time? Undoubtedly he was. Therefore, Jones was waiting to secure a more dangerous fight than Benn. The Benn v McClennan fight was in February 1995 - 4 months after Jones v Toney. Jones was already involved in a bigger, better fight than Benn, and by the time he had beaten Toney, McClennan-Benn was scheduled.

Benn didn't read the script, but that was hardly Roy's fault. Do you think Benn wanted a fight with Roy Jones right after the McClennan fight? Of course he didn't. And then he lost to Malinga. So that fight wasn't viable either. There was a tiny window where it could've happened (Feb 95-Mar 96), and Benn didn't leave the UK in that time, nor show any interest in fighting the world p4p#1.

Collins first won the supermiddle title in March 1995 by beating Eubank, then he fought Eubank again, then he settled for two routine hometown defences in Ireland, then he fought Benn twice, and by this time Jones had moved up to light-heavyweight. Does this sound like a guy who was dying to come over to the USA and fight peak Roy Jones? Apparently he called out Jones, but nothing happened. An empty gesture?? Steve Collins fought abroad earlier in his career - and lost to Mike McCallum, Reggie Johnson (both beaten by Jones) and Sumbu Kalambay. He only actually won a world title when he started fighting in Ireland/UK. Do you think he wanted to go over and fight the world's best fighter right after winning a world title when he could make money fighting past-prime Eubank and Benn? I severely doubt it. Jones moved up to light-heavyweight in Nov 1996. Therefore, he had an 18-month window to fight Collins, and Collins filled this by fighting Eubank and Benn twice each for big money at home. Again, is it fair that Jones is criticized for not fighting him when you actually examine the situation? I say it's a genuine no.

People do have a genuine case when they criticize Jones for not fighting Dariusz Michalczewski however, but the criticisms for not fighting the others are invalid IMO.
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blow it out your a$$! collins literally begged to fight Jones ANYWHERE!. Do you actually think fighing policmen and sparring parteners was a better legacy move for Jones than fighting Steve Collins? :rofl

It is actually quite common knowlege that roy avoided the best of his generation. theres no arguement there. but policmen and sparring partners.....LOL

My2Sense · Nov 4, 2008

PACFAN84 said:

Benn didn't read the script, but that was hardly Roy's fault. Do you think Benn wanted a fight with Roy Jones right after the McClennan fight? Of course he didn't. And then he lost to Malinga. So that fight wasn't viable either. There was a tiny window where it could've happened (Feb 95-Mar 96), and Benn didn't leave the UK in that time, nor show any interest in fighting the world p4p#1.

Collins first won the supermiddle title in March 1995 by beating Eubank, then he fought Eubank again, then he settled for two routine hometown defences in Ireland, then he fought Benn twice, and by this time Jones had moved up to light-heavyweight. Does this sound like a guy who was dying to come over to the USA and fight peak Roy Jones? Apparently he called out Jones, but nothing happened. An empty gesture?? Steve Collins fought abroad earlier in his career - and lost to Mike McCallum, Reggie Johnson (both beaten by Jones) and Sumbu Kalambay. He only actually won a world title when he started fighting in Ireland/UK. Do you think he wanted to go over and fight the world's best fighter right after winning a world title when he could make money fighting past-prime Eubank and Benn? I severely doubt it. Jones moved up to light-heavyweight in Nov 1996. Therefore, he had an 18-month window to fight Collins, and Collins filled this by fighting Eubank and Benn twice each for big money at home. Again, is it fair that Jones is criticized for not fighting him when you actually examine the situation? I say it's a genuine no.

People do have a genuine case when they criticize Jones for not fighting Dariusz Michalczewski however, but the criticisms for not fighting the others are invalid IMO.
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Why is it that those guys had to come to the US to make the fights happen? Those guys were making big money in the UK fighting each other, and a fight between any of them and Roy would've meant big money for all parties involved. It doesn't make sense to have the fights in the US and everyone take a pay cut.

Having said that, I don't know who (if any) of these guys Roy really "ducked". I don't think there would be much fuss about Roy not fighting these guys either, if Roy had stayed true to his word and pursued the big fights that were available above 168 (which he had said was his whole reason for moving up). He had legitimate chances to make big money megafights with Henry Maske and Dariusz in Germany, and instead of jumping for the chance to get them, he did the opposite and blockaded them from happening.

Stickandmove · Nov 4, 2008

After losing to Joe Calzaghe in a thrilling fight in 1997, Chris Eubank could have challenged Roy Jones at light heavyweight in 1998. It could have been a great fight.

Instead, Eubank effectively ducked Jones and jumped 2 weight divisions to challenge Carl Thompson (who Eubank saw as a softer option) at cruiserweight. We had 2 great fights between the pair but I'd rather have seen Jones - Eubank in 1998.

H . · Nov 4, 2008

Darius Michalczewski

The one 175-pound champ Roy refused to fight. Jones ignored him while cleaning out the division.
Some folks felt it was time to move up to heavyweight and face Riddick Bowe, but Roy wouldn't do it.

I will always be a fan of Roy's, one of the most talented boxers ever IMO, and I don't blame him for not moving up tp heavyweight when it was first demanded of him, but it will always bother me that he refused to face Michalczewski. Whether it be because he was across the sea or just lack of popularity, Jones ducked him.

stonerose · Nov 6, 2008

edhaugen said:

Eubank was also offered fights with Jones and Michalczewski in 1999 and turned them down, big money as well
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any fight in 1999 would have been pointless anyway. eubanks best days were years before.

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