To put a hypothetical Pac win in perspective

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Stonehands, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. Stonehands

    Stonehands New Member Full Member

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    So many haters downplaying Pacquiao's straight up legendary resume, and already dismissing Pac's potential win vs Spence.

    I saw in another thread how people are saying his resume doesn't come close, how even if he beats Spence he is maybe top x whatever...

    Pacquiao beating Spence is basically the equivalent of Roy Jones beating Wlad in 2011.

    SRL beating Oscar in 1999.

    Duran beating Pernell in 95.

    Sounds pretty damn ridiculous doesn't it? And Pac jumped more weight classes than all of them, so these examples could be even more ludicrous.

    Just be happy we were all lucky enough to witness one of, if not the GOAT in his prime. (My GOAT list is Pac Duran SRR in that order)
     
  2. george14

    george14 Member Full Member

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    The Mayweather fans have really ruined boxing. They are the first to dump on anyone else's accomplishments and will prop up Floyd any chance they can.

    I expect the same if Pac beats Spence. You will hear "doesn't matter Floyd still beat Pac" and things to that effect.
     
  3. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne’s life coach. Full Member

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    What thread? Can you link it?

    Hate the vague generic “people are saying, a lot of people believe” nonsense. Never trust a person that can’t speak for themselves and name their sources.

    He hasn’t.

    Now if he does... hey great. Realistically this is the longest Pac has been out of the ring and he’s on the wrong side of Father Time. Most of us love Pacquiao and don’t want to see him take a beating.


    Not remotely. Pac is a welterweight. Spence is a welterweight. At his heavyweight debut Jones weighed 193lbs. Wlad weighed 240lbs.


    Yes you do.

    No one can deny Pacquiao... he is an eight division champ. No need to make up nonsense to put a shine on him, or his career, when it’s already blinding.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Some absolutely egregious examples in the OP. Pacquiao beating Spence is nothing like that.

    For a start, Pacquiao isn't this flyweight who's arose through the weights and has been dwarfed from the 90s onward. He's a junior welterweight who's had the luck to be in a position to win the flyweight title at a young age while malnourished (I appreciate that's not being lucky perse, but in the sense that it allowed him to beat Sasakul, it is - although Pac being good enough to beat Sasakul in that state is what's impressive), and has done some downright ridiculous weight draining to get below 122. It's why his chin was shakey below 130. 'People' hyping up Pacquiao's 'potential' win, are saying that part of the reason it's super impressive is because Spence is way bigger. You can't have your cake and eat it.

    Secondly, Pacquiao is still a world level fighter. He isn't washed up to the point of being a bum and on some miraculous comeback. He's a world level fighter and a champion, who's aged very well. He might be old in boxing terms, but it's the same conundrum of Hopkins' wins post-forty. He's good at that age, they don't all become incredible just because of his age.

    Also, Pacquiao himself has said that the lay off will be a positive because he's had plenty of time to rest.

    And finally, Spence isn't some generational fighter who's nigh on unbeatable like Whitaker was. He's probably the same level as Ike Quartey. Good fighter, but nothing more. All this best win ever talk needs to **** right off. The best wins of all time are not over fighters the calibre of Errol Spence Jr. Spence is essentially nothing in the grand scheme of boxing history.
     
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  5. Yung Goku

    Yung Goku New Member Full Member

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    I mostly agree with this, though the biggest case of having their cake and eating it too is taking credit for the Sasakul win while he was a malnourished teen while brushing off the Singsurat loss for the same reason. At least with the Torrecampo loss he’s only been boxing a year and wasn’t a defending champion.

    The hypothetical Spence win though is top of the shelf win though. Yes Spence isn’t an atg but he’s not a bum either. He’s a highly ranked p4per and would be one of pacquiao’s best wins (and a top 3 at the weight class, mayweather would be 1st of course if he actually beat him) even if he was in his prime, now add that he’s ancient and it doubles in value. Pacquiao might not be “shot” but that’s just more of a testament to his greatness that he for some reason isn’t despite it making no sense that he should be able to perform at this level at his age anymore. Just like him beating Sasakul as a malnourished teen just show talented he is.
     
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  6. JOKER

    JOKER Margarito a G Full Member

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    Before the fight was announced...

    Pac will duck Crawford and Spence and pick easier opponents like Mikey or Danny.

    After the fight was announced...

    Who has Spence fought?
     
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  7. Yung Goku

    Yung Goku New Member Full Member

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    Lmfao back when Crawford vs Pac was looking to come through I remember 22JM saying how Pac went with the unproven Crawford and ducked Spence. Wonder if he said anything stupid about this fight now.
     
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  8. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thread starter names a ton of ATGs in his opening post as examples. Big problem is that Spence is not a HOF level fighter. Not sure how this one win would launch a resume that's among the best into being something more definitive. Would be one of the best wins by a fighter above 40 years old as that doesn't happen so much.
     
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  9. Oddone

    Oddone Bermane Stiverne’s life coach. Full Member

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    How do you think Spence Vs Quartey would play out?
     
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  10. boxingforum24

    boxingforum24 Member Full Member

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    :icon_popcorn:

    Carry on mothersuckers, this is good reading.
     
  11. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Lol if you think Pac is a natural JWW. Go to the Philippines, no 5'6 man who is a natural JWW. Pac fought ODLH at 142, he weighed 142 for a fight that's supposed to be at 147, he weighed 142 soaking wet after he had a nice fat dinner. You can ignore fight night weights, Jim Lampley confirmed on telecast Pac was fully clothed when he weighed in for those.

    Sure 142 max weight is within JWW, but how many JWWs actually weigh that? LW's weigh more than that.

    Pac is a natural FW like Loma. He went up in weight because he bulked up. Once you put on that muscle, it's hard to lose it.

    And that's downplaying Errol Spence a bit. Many would have Crawford as p4p 1 and the same many have Crawford/Spence as a 50/50 fight. Quite a bit better than Quartey. Win or lose, Spence will go on to be a HOF and probably ATG.
     
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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Definitely an interesting fight.

    Quartey's always gonna come forward with his jab, walking through power shots and smashing those clattering 'thud' shots on you. Weird rhythm too, but not one that's impossible to figure out. He has a good punch, decent hand-speed, a good, steady workrate, an all-time great chin and being one of the strongest welterweights in history. His stamina in his prime was very good too. Ike's weaknesses were that he could lulled into falling into bad patterns, and he could be too defensive. He stuck to his high-guard too often, so someone with the stamina and resolve could out-work him and keep him occupied. You'd have to be physically stronger as well, which is heft task - and I doubt Spence is. Purposeful movement and constant feints is definitely a way to get him to sort of lull into following you around; a little like Azumah Nelson. Perhaps Spence can do that, perhaps not.

    Spence's strategy would probably intertwine the two. He'd parry the jab, step in with the cross and work the body; then get out of range before Ike can return with too much heavy artillery. It would work well, but constantly relying on parrying Quartey's jab isn't wise. Especially because if he catches onto you shifting forward each time you parry, he's gonna throw his cross as well. And Spence had his fair share of issues with Brook's jab and physicality. Sure, he broke Brook down, but the issues Kell presented still stand. He wouldn't break Ike down.

    There's avenues to a win for Spence, but more often than not, I go with Quartey.
     
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  13. northpaw

    northpaw Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pac is an ATG, no one doubts that. I will pose two questions. How can you be the GOAT if your main nemesis arguably has 4 wins over you (including a vicious KO that ended the feud), and your other nemesis dominated you 9-3 in the largest fight in history?

    No one is knocking Pac, Pac is pretty much universally loved. We're just realistic.
     
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  14. titanic

    titanic Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You can combine all of them spence, crawfart, all the garcias, porter etc's balls, they don't beat Manny's Balls of Steel !!!!!
     
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  15. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Pac was 2-1-0 vs JMM prior to the 4th fight. Arguably 3-0 given that the judge admitted to judging mistake in the first fight. And yes you could argue JMM won the fights as well, but you can do that with a lot of fights. E.g how can Floyd be goat when he’s arguably 1-1 with Castillo and Maidana? How can Ali be goat when he’s arguably 0-3 vs Norton?

    as for the 4th fight, that was a fight Pac was winning until JMM caught him, it happens, look at Lewis rahman.

    floyd won 8-4 per judges Marjority card, that’s close enough considering Floyd is naturally 1-2 divisions higher than Pac, hugged like hell and applied his massive reach advantage, and Pac had an injured shoulder. The injured shoulder isn’t even debatable. It’s a fact that he asked for painkiller for it prior to the fight but was denied, it’s a fact that Floyd was allowed painkillers for his hands, it’s a fact that he had shoulder injury soon after the fight, and it’s a fact that Floyd took enough IV and saline prior to the fight and didn’t declare it to Pacs team as per contract or NSAC and only applied for TUE after the fight.

    that’s not even excuses, just facts.
     
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