To you, do Usyk's cruiserweight wins count towards his status as a heavyweight great?

What he’s saying is that the wbo rules gives him the right to fight the champion when he moves up. So he could have fought Joshua in his first fight at heavyweight if he wanted. I think you also need to consider his incentives and motivations- he’s the one doing the fighting. After the Witherspoon fight he clearly stated that he wants to be undisputed champion if anything i actually consider that a positive that he stuck to the route that put him atop the division at the tail end of his career.

 

That's how you see it and not necessarily how it works at all.
Your word isn't gospel.
Whilst I do agree in some cases and don't entirely disagree, I am not as sold on this occasion with those 2 particular fights/fighters.
Reason being, it isn't like they were all much different in weight, have gone up around a similar time. It's not like Usyk has gone up and Hunter hasn't for years later. Hunter went up, drew with Povetkin and beat Bakole.
Since then there is now a bridgerweight, so, Whyte beating Undefeated top 10 HW Rivas wouldn't be considered as good as Rivas changed to a new invented division for example?
Yes Hunter was a win at CW. That's not disputed, but the fact he was beaten not too long before both moved up and is the top boxrec American HW, I think adds to Usyks legacy as people can look at ratings and see Usyk already has a win

 

You can try to "logic" this all you want. Wins only count at the weight fought. If you want to use beating Hunter for Usyk's mythical "P4P" ranking, that's fine.

But it carries no weight for Usyk's HW resume.

 

Should Usyk's cruiserweight wins count towards his heavyweight resume? It's a yes or no question. There's also a poll you can vote in if you want.

 

If you're comparing them to other eras without a cruiserweight division, I feel you simply have to. You can't just pretend like for like is not comparable because another division was invented to re-label a bunch of guys. The invention of cruiserweight muddies the discussion of what "counts." and it's a sensible argument to have with someone in a variety of ways, but for me, you're going to have two questions. 1. What does something mean H2H in an unlimited class and 2. What does something mean p4p when a significantly smaller fighter is getting the job done in that unlimited class. So many "heavyweights" under the time period of CW are just guys who are CW sized who are bulking up beyond where they are athletically better anyway. There are flabby and or over-muscled stiffs who always fought at heavyweight and would be embarrassed by a lot of CW's who aren't necessarily more talented, they're just fitter for their build to do the job. The waters are very muddy here.

 

When Hunters resume is overhyped Bakole, old Povetkin and getting a gift decision against Forrest he falls under fringe contender status, he didn't come close to the belts at heavyweight. It doesn't add much to Usyks legacy even if you include him

 

In practice they do.

Take his win over Hunter. If Usyk had rematched and beaten Hunter at heavyweight, would the win had added nearly as much to his heavyweight resume as it would if he had never fought him at cruiser? Of course not. It's impractical to take the cruiserweight and heavyweight records in total isolation. There was zero demand for a Hunter rematch at heavyweight because people believe that they already saw exactly how it would play out when both weighed in at 200 lbs (we assume that neither man was weight-drained), rather than say 213 lbs (or 202 lbs, to make it more absurd). Hunter proved not long after that he was heavyweight contender level, beating Bakole (equalling Parker, something Ajagba, Anderson and Kuzmin failed to do) and drawing with Povetkin (only exceeded by Wlad and Joshua, whereas Whyte, Huck, Takam, Chambers and Chagaev lost). Usyk is thus defacto credited with a win over a future top 10 heavyweight.

Hunter's success at heavyweight also boosted the reputation of cruiser and by extension Briedis (perhaps a top 5 level heavyweight), who was much more competitive with Usyk, had a heavyweight win over Charr that was more impressive than Vitali or Povetkin's and UD's over Huck and Perez, who had close heavyweight fights against Povetkin, Takam and Jennings. The lines between these divisions are blurry and always have been, especially when trying to compare historically.