Tokyo Douglas vs Rocky Marciano

Talent wise I don't think there was much between Greg Page, Rid**** Bowe and Buster Douglas. They had varying levels of motivation that effected their spark of greatness. Trouble with staying in shape. In the end you could not really count on them.

 

Does anybody here think that Douglas was the only fighter who could have beaten Tyson that night?

Personally I think that somebody like Tucker might have done it as well.

 

Douglas wide UD or late KO, too much of everything for Rocky

No, Tucker's later movement, jab and counter punching and infighting isn't nearly on the level. Tucker had also regressed by '91

Maybe Holyfield would win, that version with Holyfield likely brawls with Tyson though, which may work if he can push him back and make him uncomfortable with the pace of the fight.

 

It is not just disturbing, it is downright hard to swallow.

It is tempting to view Tyson as the critical factor in this, because that leaves more of the universe as you know it intact.

 

I think that's harsh. He still was a legit contender who earned his title shot by beating other contenders and then beat the great unbeaten champ. If he hadn't got massively out of shape and if he didn't come up against another of the best ever in Holyfield in his next title shot he would have racked up defences.

Douglas like many boxers didn't like the sport and only got in shape for a brief time and once he got the championship, money and fame he stopped trying. For some reason he's held in lesser regard than champs who had brief reigns for other eras, when he shouldn't be.

 

I heard some very bad things about Tyson and his habits and training on the night he fought Buster, so although Buster looked great on that night a lot had to do with the condition of his opponent. I can not go with Douglas based on a night that his opponent was ripe for the picking. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and full credit for this victory but there were many who would have beaten Tyson that night and looked good doing it. When I judge a fighter I can not do it on one performance and a lot has to do with the guy in the other corner. I seen Buster give up in other fights and I think he does so against the iron willed Marciano

 

The thing was that Douglas the best possible contender who was totally under the radar when he fought Tyson. Douglas was proberbly the only capable heavyweight in the world (apart from Tyson) who could (and was) beating rated heavyweights.

As good as we all thought Tyson was at the time much of his world title opposition were not (and had not) beat rated contenders for a very long time (if at all) when he was bouncing them off the floor and looking so amazing doing it.

Along came Douglas off actual relevent wins, unintimidated, driven and all of a sudden Tyson met his match. Nobody foresaw that Douglas unlike bigger names such as Bruno, Biggs, Tubbs, Thomas, Holmes and Spinks was buster was the one who could still beat rated fighters when he fought Tyson. We did not notice this was the key.

Tyson was as prepared for Douglas as he was for Tucker, Bruno and WIlliams. He even had the same corner against Williams and Bruno as be did for Douglas.

The thing everyone missed was that Douglas was so seasoned and beating good guys in competative fights. To a large extent Douglas was used to competition where as Tyson was getting used to guys falling over and being intimidated.

 

Put it this way I don't think anybody needed to be "great" to defeat Tyson on that night...:

 

Douglas boxed very well indeed. One of history's great performances. Douglas was a sleeping talent awakened on the right night.

Tyson was as well prepared as he had been for other fights that count amongst his glory nights.

 

All true.
But it also depends on who is around at the time.
Credit to men like Lewis and Klitschko who are actually good and "too big".
I think men like Roy Jones Jr., Chris Byrd and James Toney (in some sort of decent shape) could very possibly have been the world's best HWs for a time (and fighting at 200pounds) if only Lewis and the K brothers didn't exist.

But, generally, yes, there's a proven net advantage in putting on a bit of muscle to get to 210 or 220 pounds for those "light-heavy/cruiser"-framed guys.

 

This is true.
But I'd also factor in that Douglas rarely knocked any HW contender out (Tyson was one of the few) and that Marciano looks to have absolute brutal power beyond his pounds, and bad intentions with every punch.
Of course, Douglas DID have the beating of Tyson.
But he also hit the deck hard in that fight, and was stopped in other fights.
In other words, we must assume he had weaknesses. And Marciano's punch is - I believe - a great equalizer.

I supposes it raises the question of who's the best 6'4, 230 pound heavyweight you would pick Marciano to beat ?
We don't even have to start with THE best. Can we name any ? Big guys he'd (almost) definitely beat ?
I think there might be some pretty good ones.

 

Don't let the Tyson nuthuggers hear you say that!

They'll cry about every excuse in the book whilst conveniently forgetting that Douglas was pretty damn ill and on medication prior to the fight.