Tokyo Douglas vs Tyson of the Berbick fight

:-(

 

I don't know if I agree that Aron Snowel, Jay Bright and the other guys who replaced Rooney, tried to turn Tyson into a "boxer", but the general sentiment of your post is correct in the sense that they tried to fix something that wasn't broken. What they did, was try to capitalize on his hitting ability and turn a great cumulative puncher into a one punch entity, hence changing the nature of an animal. When I look at Tyson's early performances against guys like Marvis Frazier, Alonzo Ratliff, Trevor Berbick, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, etc, I see a man who is constantly bobing, weaving, throwing combos, clinching when necessary and taking advantage of easy openings. He did none of this against Douglas, and while he seemed to have had a wake up call when fighting Ruddock after the Douglas defeat, wasn't employing many of these tactics as well. He had abandoned what had gotten him to the top.... Plain and simple....And frankly, even if Don King had re-hired Kevin Rooney, I'm not sure that any of those skills were ever coming back.

 

A Berbick Tyson crushes Tokyo Douglas.

Tyson almost won that night with the Round 8 knockdown, and he was clearly a step or two behind his technically prime self to anyone that isn't a hater. There is no doubt in my mind a motivated Tyson would have found that mark far earlier, and also would have capitalized on it.

Tyson only got "wild" against Berbick when he knew he had him beat. Which was pretty much immediately. He was totally correct and justified to turn into a destroyer that fight.

 

I agree. Berbick didn't have a lot of firepower to keep Tyson at bay. Tyson basically walked through what Trevor tried to throw which wasn't much. In contrast Douglas was a six foot four two hundred thirty pound man with a stiff jab that kept rocking Tyson all night. Douglas was fearless in Tokyo and chose to exchange punch for punch with Mike and actually initiate many of those exchanges unlike Berbick who began in round one fighting to survive not win. Berbick fought on the run while Douglas courageously took the fight to Tyson. Every fighter that has beaten Tyson took the fight to him. If Tyson wasn't the hunter he was the hunted. Everyone that beat Tyson used the Douglas blueprint to do so. I believe Douglas wins in the same scenario we witnessed in Tokyo.

 

A Tokyo Douglas v a 1986 Tyson fight would end with a Douglas points victory.

 

Same resultt - Douglas KO10 Tyson.

 

It is not a good comparison. Berbick fought the dumbest fight possible against a Tyson. Good call getting rid of Eddie Futch for the fight Trevor.

And Tyson had exactly the ideal opponent strategy wise to fight in Berbick. This is Tyson at his best and it always will be that way. Douglas was never going to fight that kind of accommodating style for Mike to look good. You have to work to get Douglas out of there and it can become a footwork and mobility fight. The bout against Berbick was the complete opposite and you had a relatively soft puncher trying to outslug Tyson.

 

Tough one to call here. I dont think its as black and white as some think. Tokyo Buster was brilliant that night and any excuse for tyson not being 100% isnt busters fault, its mikes own. However, IMO i think a lot depends on how buster reacts to being caught early, as i think Tyson would land in the early rounds. Does he fold or get back up? The thing for me is that in Tokyo, buster was giving a good account of himself when he was dropped, therefore having an incentive (apart from his mothers passing) to get back up and carry on as the fight was still there for the taking. Im not so sure he does the same in this match-up if caught early in the fight before any kind of pattern is set.

If im pushed to make a call i'll go for Tyson in 5 or 6.

 

When a guy has the set of tools Berbick has, the absolute worst thing you can do is walk into an opponents wheelhouse and their much faster and crisper punches from the opening bell. Maybe Eddie Futch helps with that and maybe he doesn't because Berbick still has to listen and do what he's told to do and what not to do.

but he got blasted just like he did against Mercado. Berbick needs to effectively kill the clock for 4 or 5 rounds and then maybe try slugging with Tyson. Even then, that just gives him a chance & is hardly a sure thing & maybe he mauls his way to a win. He fought like a gunslinger & Trevor is no gunslinger.

 

Another brilliant post from you.

 

I say Tyson by knockout. He would have finished Douglas after that uppercut.

 

To be fair, I mean this one, even if I have been ****ing around more lately.

Tyson was always a bit wild and lacked finesse, but even relative to his usual standards the Berbick fight was a bit of a dip IMO. Still well within the night-to-night fluctuation range of a primed out fighter, but not a top-quality performance - making it a good analogue for the Douglas fight in fact.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJOZPzmIJ2w[/ame]

One of the things noticeable from the very beginning is how Tyson is rushing forward with little or no head movement and looking to lead right away. I'm not a huge lover of Tyson's head movement anyway as it's too rhythmic and slightly predictable (McGrain did a very good post on it a while back which I can't be bothered to dig out) but it was certainly more than serviceable against Berbick-level opposition, and at the very least it was a proper mechanism for him getting to the correct sort of punching distance rather than just winging a telegraphed right hand like he does in the second exchange, which leaves him wide open and would have been countered by any decent fighter. He misses wildly at 1:15 which leads to an amateurish sequence of slugging. At 1:36 he marches straight forward with his left hand stuck right out, delivers another telegraphed combination and leaves himself wide open for countering. Etc. Hardly Matequilla Napoles stuff.

Anyway, that's exactly the sort of overzealous aggression that Douglas exposed. Lack of patience or really skilled means of setting up offence and a lack of basic defensive sense. So it wasn't really a much better performance to my mind, no.