Tommy Gibbons sadly forgotten now /why?

That really gives you an idea of what a cold, calculating and methodical fighter Tunney was. It's almost creepy.

 

I rank Gibbons either just in or just outside the all time top 10 light-heavies.

 

That may be but at the time the only one who was a champ was Dempsey and it wasnt just THAT he lost, it was how he lost. In all three of those fights, again the biggest fights of his career, he not only lost but was dominated for the most part almost to passivity (arguably doing the best against Dempsey). When you box the ears off a ton of "B" lvl guys and look really impressive in doing so, get the world to take notice to the point you are given a massive fight, then fail miserably. Its not who you fought that people remember, its that you lost and more importantly HOW you lost. Gatti is remember because he could lose but never stopped until you split his head open with an axe. Tommy didnt exactly put in those do or die performances when the chips were down. When he wasnt in control he didnt seem to have another gear that he could get into in order to get the fight back. He just let it slip away. Its that type of performance that people dont forgive. Josh Clottey is a heck of a fighter too but against Margarito and Cotto he basically gave the fight away by not stepping on the gas. Then against Pac he comes into the ring and just tries to survive. Think he will be remembered as a heck of a fighter or a guy who pissed away his three biggest opportunities?

 

I certainly would not compare Gibbons to Clottey, or suggest that the best people he beat were "B level guys".

Gibbons was as hard as teak and although he forced to fight to surviuve against Dempsey, he was verry much working in the line of fire and taking punishment. Getting the fight back against a fighter like Dempsey who applies constant pressure is easier said than done. Dempsey had him out on his feet in the early rounds (acording to Gibbons testimony), which suggests that his survival mode might have been the only viable response to the prevailing events.

His loss to Greb has to be weighed against the fact that he also beat Greb at a less critical point in their respective careers.

 

You are missing the point. Whether a fighter is remembered or forgotten depends on the waves he makes during his career and the momentum he builds. That is done in marquee fights. Period. During those fights the fighters past and future dont mean anything to the crossover fans who tune in that normally wouldnt care. Frankly it doesnt mean much to the die hards either. What matters is the present, what happens in the ring before the big audience and how they will react to carry your legacy to new heights. If you crash and burn you will be forgotten, if you look sensational chances are you will be remembered. If you turn in humdrum performances chances are people will remember you as a middling performer. It doesnt matter that Gibbons stayed in the pocket and took Dempsey the distance. He didnt fight with fire and thats what was remembered. It doesnt matter that he was facing arguably the greatest fighter in history when he lost to Greb. He was the favorite, he had every advantage and still managed to lose nearly every round. It doesnt matter that he was past his prime and Tunney was in his, he was thoroughly outboxed and knocked out by a guy who wasnt a particularly heavy puncher in his last big chance. People remember those sorts of things. Because in light of these performances people went back and reevaluated his knockout streaks and said he was fighting setups. Its not fair (because I think Tommy is underrated too) but thats what happened. Knocking out Willie Meehan in one round was impressive... but he did it in Cleveland which was a good fight town but not a national stage. Knocking out Hugh Walker was impressive... but he did it in Terre Haute, not exactly a hub of the boxing world. He kicked the **** out of Carpentier but that was in Michigan City were decisions werent allowed as a result Carpentiers american representatives under Jack Curley sent out false wire reports stating Carpentier won so as not to hurt his gate reciepts for the Tunney fight that was already scheduled. Because of this the fight was quickly forgotten and for years many considered it a win for Carpentier. People arent going to forget Bernard Hopkins because of the Morrade Hakkars he fought, they will remember him because when he was thrust on the big stage against Tito and Pavlikk he took the opportunity and ran with it. Gibbons for one reason or another couldnt do that and as such his memory has suffered. Keep this in its proper context, im not saying Gibbons wasnt good, he was. He was very good indeed. Im just trying to explain why he isnt remembered with more reverence.

 

You are once again missing the point. I am not saying that Gibbons wasnt good. Your original post asked why he is "sadly forgotten" obviously if we are talking about him on a "boxers of the past" forum he isnt forgotten to us. He is forgotten to the public at large and I have explained why.

 

Tommy Gibbons is underrated by the casual fan but I believe he gets his due among knowledgeable boxing fans.

 

Burt have you seen this ? Just came out. I read it. IT is terrific ...

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Shelbys-Folly-Dempsey-Shakedown-Boomtown/dp/0803226551/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269342588&sr=1-1[/ame]

 

Burt, did you see this ? Just came out ... terrific read .


[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Shelbys-Folly-Dempsey-Shakedown-Boomtown/dp/0803226551/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269342588&sr=1-1[/ame]

 

What's interesting is that it is written in many ways from Gibbon's perspective ... pretty interesting take ..

 

Hopefully it accurately illustrates that the fight was a financial failure due largely to Jack Kearns actions and not (as Burt Sugar would say) because it was in the middle of nowhere.

 

Well, it wasn't a financial failure for Dempsey or Kearns.

 

It was for Shelby, Tommy Gibbons, Mike Collins and basically everyone else involved OTHER than Kearns and Dempsey. They didnt call it the **** of Shelby for nothing. Within weeks if not days of the fight Kearns basically bent everyone over and ****ed them in the ass ruining the promotion, causing a massive wave of cancellations, and as stated above basically caused the financial distress or outright collapse of everyone else involved.