Tommy Loughran or Mickey Walker?

Cheers.

Yes, on win resume alone, I'd have Greb #1 at LHW. His wider career resume is beyond absurd.

On Conn being in your top 10 at LHW, do you consider all career fights and then rank fighters you consider natural LHWs, do you only factor in fights contested at LHW or have you not looked into it that deeply?

My LHW rankings are based solely on fights contested at LHW, allowing a few lbs over for non title fights.

Conn only had 16 fights at LHW by my reckoning, going 15-1. He was 4-0 in lineal world title fights and reigned for 2 years. He beat Lesnevich, Bettina x 2, 161lbs Apostoli, Krieger x 2 and 164lbs Zale. He lost to 162lbs Teddy Yarosz. I assign his wins over Yarosz and Dundee to MW, as they were contested at 161/162lbs, so seem better attributed to slightly over the weight non title contests between two MWs, to me.

It's a decent LHW record, which is why I have him #17 all time, but I can't see an argument for him being top 10 applying this criteria. If I was to rank my top 20 LHWs, p4p, based on all the fights they had in their respective careers across all weight divisions, I'd have Conn top 10. He did great work at MW and inparticular, from a p4p perspective, at HW.

 

I think our differences on where we rank Conn are mostly attributable to different criteria. i.e. I think Bivins and Conn are both greater boxers than JHL, yet I have Lewis ranked higher at LHW, based solely on bouts contests at LHW. In fights contested at LHW (defined as where the heavier man weighs 165-180lbs, to allow for slightly over the weight non-title contests), their records are:

John Henry Lewis:

• Record = 50-0-3 (his losses to Rosenbloom were contested above 180lbs & as such contribute towards their HW resumes)
• Lineal world Title fights = 6-0 during 4-year reign
• Key wins = Maxie Rosenbloom x 2, Tiger Jack Fox, Al Gainer x 2, Tony Shucco x 2, Bob Olin x 3, Bob Goodwin, Jock McAvoy, Len Harvey, Lou Scozza & Fred Lenhart
• Prime losses = 0

Jimmy Bivins:

• Record =14-1
• Lineal world Title fights = N/A
• Key wins = Ezzard Charles, Lloyd Marshall, Joey Maxim, Gus Lesnevich, Anton Christoforidis, Teddy Yarosz, Billy Soose, Nate Bolden & Curtis Shepherd
• Prime losses = 1 to Ezzard Charles

Billy Conn:

• Record =15-1
• Lineal world Title fights = 4-0 during 2-year reign
• Key wins = Gus Lesnevich x 2, Melio Bettina x 2, natural MW Fred Apostoli x 2, Solly Krieger x 2 and natural MW Tony Zale
• Prime losses = 1 to natural MW Teddy Yarosz

There's no doubt in my mind, based solely on fights contested in this weight range, that JHL & Bivins have a better record than Conn. However if I were to rank them based on all their respective fights, across all weight divisions, i.e. on my p4p ATG list, I'd have it:

1) Conn
2) Bivins
3) JHL

Conn & Bivins very close, I could possibly see them switched, but both definitely ahead of JHL.

I hope that clarifies my rationale. I consider Conn a bonified ATG boxer, too.

 

Cheers mate, likewise.