Tommy Loughran vs Billy Conn

I think that this would be a really good fight and I would love to see it. I have no idea who would win, but I'd probably pick Conn.

 

I prefer what I've seen of Loughran. Loughran had a bit of a tendency to leave his chin in the air when he threw, but other than that I think he has the better footwork, combination punching, ring generalship...don't see Conn winning.

 

"Billy Conn makes more mistakes in a minute than Lee Ramage made in a whole fight!"-Joe Louis

If MW ATG stylist Teddy Yarosz could give Billy headaches three times [and many witnesses to all three of their bouts believed Teddy should have been 3-0 against Conn], then Loughran is the LHW most likely to make Billy [who by his own admission wasn't the brightest bulb in the drawer] look stupid. Unlike Conn, Tommy was no "thick" Irishman. [The Pittsburgh Kid doesn't look entirely comfortable against southpaw Bettina either.]

Philly over Pittsburgh here, by comfortable 15 round UD, in either city. Loughran would successfully capitalize on every mistake Louis described Billy as making. Tommy was Ramage on LSD. [And a peak Loughran would have been a nightmare for Joe. Louis could certainly knock Tommy senseless if he reached that chin, but Loughran would never go for a knockout, or run out of patience to create a fatal opening for Joe, EVER.] Billy would feel like he was trapped in an M.C. Escher lithograph.

Max Baer would have had some interesting comments on this one, having been schooled by Tommy in competition, and clowned by a young Conn after being sucker punched by Billy in sparring.

 

Yeah, I've watched that exhibition numerous times, and noted with interest that it was Max's hook, NOT his right hand, which put the Kingfish out. Strange to view that assault after watching footage of their earlier 20 rounder.

Conn and Baer sparred while Max was the HW king, and Billy was a skinny 16 year old lightweight, in 1934 or 1935. There are a couple alternative accounts of this. First is the original one I read years ago, published much earlier than the account I read in the Conn biography by Paul Kennedy

Max was being kind of fatherly to the kid, smiling and taking it easy, and leaving himself wide open in the process. Billy hauled off and drew some blood, Maxie stifled a curse, momentarily lost his temper, and went after him, unloading bombs which would have killed Conn...had they landed.

After time was called, Max [whose fuses tended to burn out VERY quickly] came over to him smiling again, congratulated him on his performance, and patronizingly expressed the wish that Billy spare him from ever making Max compete against him before a paying crowd, lest he be made to look foolish again. [Max was no doubt having flashbacks to Loughran, and the resulting jab induced nightmares Tommy inflicted on him. Max wasn't oriented towards revenge so much as he was towards avoiding humiliation, and he no doubt was as admiring of young Conn's precocious elusiveness after regaining his senses as he was of Tommy's veteran artistry.]

Well, an alternative description comes from "Billy Conn-The Pittsburgh Kid," by Paul F. Kennedy. Here, it says that Johnny Ray proposed that Conn work with Baer. After Billy spent several rounds frustrating Max by ducking, dodging and parrying, Baer gave up trying to hit him, and instead attempted the taunt, "I'll bet you wish you had my strength," whereupon Conn fired back, "I'll bet you wish you had my guts!"

Kennedy's account doesn't ring as true to me as the earlier story [which I read around the late 1970s, well within Conn's lifetime, while Billy died several years before Kennedy's bio was published]. Max might have momentarily lost his temper to a sucker punch [like Marciano did when his younger brother slugged Rocky in a Maine exhibition], but it seems silly that he'd have that kind of trash talking exchange with a 16 year old lightweight, let alone that they'd be sparring several rounds like Kennedy describes.

 

I think Gene had his number, and probably picked up on the same flaws Schmeling and Jack Johnson shared with Paul Gallico and Nat Fleischer respectively before Schmeling-Louis I. Tunney was publicly very flattering to Louis, but also far too intelligent an analyst not to have identified Joe's vulnerabilities with precision, and consider how he would have exploited those limitations with his own strengths. Gene was distance oriented, and would have been boxing for a time limit decision the whole way.

 

Hiya Anubis. Well, I think you're taking this quote out of context. Louis was talking about Ramage when he made this quote and lauding what a fine boxer he was, not disparaging Conn or suggesting he was flawed. Joe was VERY clear in interviews whom he thought was the greater fighter.

You're forgetting that Yarosz, who was still in his prime, had a VAST advantage in experience over Conn, who was still growing and learning. Yarosz was the professor here. Yet their bouts were still close. Prime for prime? I'd pick Conn. And I don't consider Loughran to be on some higher level than Yarosz in terms of ability at all. Greater? Based on accomplishments, yes. But they were very similar in style- light hitting, iron-jawed defensive masters with stabbing left hands. And he wasn't a bad light-heavy either, attaining a top 10 ranking and topping the likes of Lloyd Marshall and Al Gainer (two deadly LHs) at the end of his career.

I don't know how smart Conn was or wasn't outside of the ring. But inside the ring he had, by all accounts, a very sharp boxing mind. Tommy Loughran never saw the day that he could make a prime Billy Conn look stupid.

Nobody looked comfortable against Bettina, a strong, durable southpaw who knew how to fight. He was considered one of the most difficult men in the world to go up against back then. Look at his record. He made great fighters look very mortal.

Which mistakes?

You think more highly of Loughran (who steered clear of black fighters and has been criticized for it) than I do. A prime Louis? He would hunt Tommy down and destroy him by mid rounds. We have films of Tommy. He was a genius, but he could be tagged. He wouldn't have to create the opening. Louis would create it. Joe would tag him, body and head. Loughran gets KO'd there.

:bbb:good

 

And I definitely don't fancy the great but overrated Tunney's chances vs a prime Louis either. Louis slows Gene up and hammers him to sleep by the late rounds.

 

Johnny Ray must have doped this match out at some point.
Ill bet one of Billy's kids knows the answer.

 

id pick loughran over conn from what i have seen. as far as tunney vs louis- tunney is one boxer who may have defeated louis. id pick louis 2 of 3 but tunney would not be any shock in the least to decision louis , or anybody else for that matter, imo.

 

Take away Joe Louis put in a more suitable opponent and give young Billy another year or so to fill out that 169 pounds and he takes Tommy.

 

I humbly concur. I'll take Conn by UD.