Tommy Ryan breaks down the top fighters of 1907

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Apr 23, 2010.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I respect Ryan above all other commentators at this time. Here are some of his thoughts on the top men in all divisions in December of '07.



    "Among the little fellows there seems to be considerable doubt. I refer to the men of the 105lb division. But even at that figure few of them care to take the chance. Most of the bantams want to come in at from 107 to 112 pounds, which fact alone sends them out of that class into the next one above. JOhnny Coulon seems to be the best of the boys that can make 105 legitimately and fight at that figure.

    Of course, there is only one Abe Attell. He stands out in a class by himself and indeed I sincerely believe that ther are few lightweights who can beat him..

    The same classification is possible among the 133 pounders. Tehre is but one Gans, a might fighter of the rarest class and skill, a man so old he should ne be classed a retired veteran, but so well preserved that he is able to easily dispose of anybody sent against him.

    From the light to the middle limits is a ***** combination of freaks and misfits. Were Joe Walcott as good as he were five years ago he would send any mother's sone scampring to the nearest woods in deepest fear. He was the dandy of them all, an, like Joe Gans, could step out into the two weight classes above his own and whip heavyweights - a most remarkable man.

    The same is true of the present day heavight division with Jim Jeffries in retirement. Tommy Burns, a good fighter, is a joke as a champion.

    Really, I must consider this fellow Johnson as a sure enough black peril. I dount if there is a heavy today that can stand him off. Kauffman doesn't shape up well but may turn out to be something with some more time on his shoulders. Schreck, through bad training methods has proved a disappointment, and there your listends.

    Not so among the middleweights. Just look at the array of high grade fighters that could be throwinto a tournie and put up dazzling, even fights that would send the fighting bug into spasms of delight. Here si the way I will have to place them:

    1 - Jack Sullivan. One of the greatest fighters that ever lived, and probbaly the hardest man in the ring to whip. I counsel any of them to keep their hands of this bald headed chap.

    2 - Hugo Kelly, the Chigao Italian, a particularly good and wiling fighter, but one who will have to fight more aggressively to become a real popular idol.

    3 - Bill Papke, the Sping Valley wonder, of whom i have heard so much but know so little. He is a great man.

    4 - Young Ketchell, the young Butte man, who sparng into such prominance by drawing with and beating Joe Thomas out on the Pacific Coast, two exceptional performances.

    Just think over the possibilities among this quartet of star fighters!"




    The big winners here seem to be Gans, Attell, Walcott and Sullivan with Kauffman and Burns coming off worst.
     
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  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    :lol:
     
  3. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I wonder what Ryan thought of Ketchel when he went on to knockout Jack Twin Sullivan, Hugo Kelly, and Billy Papke! :shock:
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Do you know what I mean? Ketchel was the coming man in the hottest division in the sport, which he cleans up, as you say.

    I've heard Ketchel described as overated on this board. This article indicates the reverse is true.
     
  5. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Burns was **** hot. Why was he considered a 'joke'?
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ryan's opinion is that he was a good fighter but a joke "as a champion". He did not see Burns as a great HW champion. He seems to rate him lower than many, but broadly, he was correct.
     
  7. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    We need more threads like this. It's great to hear from the perspective of those living at the time. Attell seems to be quite underestimated these days; what exactly is the gripe many have with him?
     
  8. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Very nice find...Ketchel is underated on this board. In his era, under the rules of his day, he is brutal on anyone 160lbs.Really great to see what Tommy Ryan thought of him...and this is before he fights everyone.
     
  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    :good

    I don't know what's up with ESB in regards to ketchel. Other boards don't treat him this way. It is of grave injustice to ketchel the way he gets treated here. For some reason, ESB posters have this infatuation with the Burns-Squires film. They see Tommy cleanly knocking out some big stiff, and they think he was some kind of murderous puncher. It's a shame we don't have ketchel's best knockouts on film. Jack Twin Sullivan beat Tommy Burns. Ketchel knocked Sullivan out cold in 20.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Based upon the article, who do you guys think Ryan would have labelled the p4p #1?
     
  11. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Gans.
     
  12. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Todays revisionists, who say Stanley Ketchel is overated,suffer from hyper ego's...Their low opinions of the great Ketchel 100 years after his death,flies in the face of all the great boxing experts , who SAW Ketchel in his prime...They judge the Michigan Assassin, by two film clips of Stanley..One in 1909, with Billy Papke when Ketchel broke his hand in the early rounds,but won a 20 round dec.He was in great pain in the bout..The other film is in 1909 against the 40 lb heavier Jack Johnson, in which Ketchel dropped the Galveston Giant,before being ko'd in the 12th round...Ketchel had 64 fights and flattened 49 opponents in his sad and short career...But because their are no films of these fights, he is judged on two fights as mentioned above...Forget his record, forget what experts who saw him fight reported...We KNOW better 100 years later is hokum,I say...I picture Stanley Ketchel as a more destructive version of Gerald Mclellan,mixed with tremendous stamina...One for the ages,I say...
     
  13. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Even the footage we have denotes him as the most violent in-fighter caught on film, for me.
     
  15. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is very true...vicious infighter. And with the rules of the day, he could STAY inside with out being broken out of a clinch. Ketchel had some very nice shifts (ie Fitz) and he never allowed himself to be back into the ropes. While Ketchel is known as a killer...the film shows he is a thinking killer. He knows where he is at and what he is doing in the ring. I rate Ketchel highly myself.