Tommy Ryan vs Sugar Ray Robinson

A recent poll on the internet had sugar ray robinson as virtually a unanimous number 1 all time welterweight king and Tommy Ryan well outside the top 10. So i thought i would do a bit of a comparison of welterweight records to see how far apart these welterweigt greats really are in terms of legacy. Ryans record is largely incomplete and no one has seen film so it is unfair to make subjective head to head calls, but these are basic facts which are indisputable. Figures are a bit of a rough count.

welterweight champion:

Fighting record as a welterweight

Years fought as a contender - Ryan - 7 Robinson - 6



Fights as a welter: Ryan - 70 fights 45 KOs Losses 1
His only loss was to Charles kid McCoy. who is an all time great Light Heavyweight.

Robinson 100 fights 65 KOs Losses 1
His only loss was to Jake Lamotta who was an all time great middleweight.


Championship reign as welterweight: Ryan - 4yrs Robinson
No of successful title defences: Ryan - 9 Robinson -4
Fights won as welterweight champion: Ryan 28 Robinson 23


I will compare middleweight records when i get time, but i wait with interest for someone to explain why robinson is so much better.

 

I did a rough count off of Cyberboxingzone. They may be a couple of fights wrong because counting is harder than it sounds for someone like me.

 

I think you are correct, in fact i am certain of it. Ray may have been better than Tommy Ryan, but the reality is that most people simply dont know Ryan. And looking at what both actually achieved, they are pretty much exactly the same in nearly all facets. If anything, Ryan may have a slight advantage. When i get time, it will be interesting to compare their middleweight careers, because i tend to think that Ryan might actually have a slightly better middleweight record, but i am not sure.

One of the things which does hurt Ryans case a little is the scoring of bouts. For obvious reasons, Ryan has quite a few draws and NCs. But Ray would have also quite a few too, if similar scoring and rules were in effect. Also, quite a few of Ryan's KOs were in fights much longer than Rays fights, but this is again balanced by some fights being scheduled for only 4 rounds.

All in all, i think that these two records are so close on any objective viewing that i think it is quite silly to suggest that it is even posible to list 10 fighters in between them. I think that these two guys must rate very, very close to each other in any list ever done, pound for pound or otherwise, so if Ray is ranked 1, i think it near impossible to have Tommy any lower than 5. And in reality, they probably need to be ranked right next to each other.

 

Probably, let me count the cheating way.

Dempsey, billy smithx2, tracey, Jack Bonner X 2, Jack Moffatt

Is 7 correct or did i miss again?