Toney & nunn beats calzaghe black and blue?

Good post. In the build up to Benn-Eubank II, Toney was interviewed, and he was due to face the winner. But after the draw, the negotiations just broke down, and neither party seemed interested. They would have been great fights because James was in shape back then.

Like you say, as soon as he lost to Roy, he moved up to 175, and then his career was patchy. But that was not due to his skill set, it was due to his lack of discipline. It's like when he moved up to heavyweight. Roy moved up to heavy to create history, and had to bulk up, but James went up, simply because he couldn't make 168/175 anymore. I have to give him credit for the Jirov win though, that was a great win.

I personally think that the hype was justified when he was in his early 20's, but he wasted what should have been his peak years. But the Nunn and Barkley fights etc were great to watch. He really was a fantastic old school fighter, with fantastic defense and punching power. He must have a lot of regrets, because I genuinely believe that had he been dedicated, such as someone like Floyd, he would have gone down in history as an all time great fighter.

Regards, Loudon.

 

My total lack of knowledge? Hilarious!

I know that Ottke didn't want to know, and I know that Bernard messed him around. I'm well aware of all that. My response is to you saying that Roy avoided him, which is absolutely laughable!

The fight with Roy was never viable.

Joe didn't fight at Roy's weight class. That is a fact!

Joe had never fought in America, and wasn't interested in doing so. That's another fact!

He didn't do either until he was 36 years old in 2008.

Despite him being a great fighter, outside of Europe, he was relatively unknown until the Lacy fight in 2006. That is another fact!

He said he'd want the crown jewels to fight Roy. Who the hell was going to give Joe the crown jewels, when again, outside of Europe, he wasn't well known? It was a huge spanner in the works of a potential fight. Tell me who in around 2001/2002 was going to pay him millions to fight Roy? The answer is nobody was!

Yes we know that Roy fought bums. But the majority of them were mandatories, and at the time he was fighting them, he was already a three weight world champ, and considered the best fighter in the world.

He wasn't the best man at 175?

DM had the same belt that Joe had. The WBO belt. And it was worth **** all in the world of boxing back then. It wasn't even recognized as a proper belt. Roy had the other three. DM agreed to go to the States on two occasions, and then pulled out on two occasions. He was happy defending his belt in Germany for decent money, and he didn't want to risk it. The onus was on him to go to Roy, not the other way round. Nobody could of expected Roy to have gone to Germany in 2001, when the judging was disgraceful, and he was the man.


The worlds best fighter at 175, avoided Joe Calzaghe who fought at 168, who'd struggled with Reid, and who was fighting the likes of Veit and Woodhall, and who wasn't known in America?? Ha! Of course he did!

I bet Roy was terrified!

The only person here who looks stupid, is YOU!!

 

you're more stupid than i thought, boy.

the fight with jones was viable. joe was going to move up and face him numb nuts. they offered jones 5 mill, he refused the offer. they never made any offer to joe in return.

joe wasn't looking for millions and millions, just the money he deserved.

when joe made that comment "the crown jewels" he had just become champ. what he was saying was that if he were to fight roy so soon after getting the title he would want to be paid a lot for putting his career on the line. you fool. joe needed to get some experience before he stepped up in class. when he'd got that by fighting some world class fighters, he called roy out. the money was great, but he didn't want to know.

you think that people wanted to see the so called best fighter on the planet take on woods, kelly, and gonzalez, but not the recognised best supermiddle in the world? :rofl:rofl

that was roy's problem. even in america. they said he was fighting nobodies. joe was a fight they were talking about. but still, jones wasn't interested.

calzaghe was known in america. they showed a lot of his fights on showtime. how did the lacy fight become so big if they didn't know who he was? god you're a moron.

why did joe need to fight in america? take less money for the same fighters? that's just stupid. it done lennox lewis a lot of good in getting bowe, holyfield and tyson into the ring didn't it? atsch

do you have a brain?

when the fight made sense as to fight in america, he did. it never made sense before. the only guys it would of made sense in traveling for, were jones and hopkins. but they did everything they could to avoid him. why can't you get that through to your thick skull!?

you couldn't be more wrong on the DM situation if you tried. HE was the lineal champ at the weight, not roy. roy had the titles that DM relinquished. ask anybody on this site.

you are a god damn fool, kid. as i say, don't discuss something if you don't have enough knowledge on the subject. you end up looking silly. don't you?

 

neither wanted to fight in the others country, because of the German bias/lack of German bais in judging.

in fact, he went for the easy option almost every time, whether it involved money or not.

Quick question. You cant get great pay fighting weaker fighters. They are intrinsincally different. Which one was it? You;ve mistakenly said it was both. Was he after the experience over great pay, or great pay over experience?

wbo wasnt recognised, surely the other recognised belts dictated best SMW?

becasue Lacy was an Innuit Eskimo? no I mean ...AMerican. PS God doesnt exist. But if he did, he wouldnt be a moron.

... then when they got old and had less chance of beating Joe, they were miraculously cured of their fear of Calzaghe whilst Calzaghe got miraculously cured of his fear of flying! Its a miracle! Maybe God does exist!

nope, Darius got stripped for not fighting people, his fault entirely he ended up with just the unrecognised WBO belt and Roy stepped in to take his old belts. Hallelujah!

amen to that!

 

First of all Calzaghe wasnt at his best for fights ever since he got the hand injuries years ago, its testament to his skills that he went from someone able to knock someone out to a fighter who adapted to going the distance and using his incredible stamina to great effect.
As for the comment regarding welsh biased refs, first of all they are not welsh refs they are English mainly and incase your not aware England and Wales are seperate and not always the best of friends many americans dont bother finding that out scotland & wales are called England ffs
Also american refs in the us are not biased right?
This argument by us fans about uk decisions etc is laughable
And how many of the top US fighters ever came over to the UK to fight?
Never mind all the bile spat at uk fighters not going to the US
Modern Boxings origins lie in the uk not the US so what makes the US THE place to prove yourself ?
Its plain US arrogance, thats all it is
Nobody outside of the US is considered worthy until they face someone on US soil this is nothing more than arrogance
Never mind the chickens who wouldnt come over and face the likes of Benn, Eubank or Calzaghe when they had the chance, ohh yeah they mouthed off they wanted this guy and that guy but didnt have the balls to back it up with any backbone.
Benn and Eubank both challenged the likes of Nunn and Toney to fights, Toney said he would beat both Eubank and Benn in the same night in the uk in a BBC interview years ago
But afterwards when pressed things went quiet Toney more mouth than action.
People jump on the Ward bandwagon why? Because he is a US fighter
The same way they jumped on the Pavlik bandwagon until he was smashed to pieces by a supposedly old and finished BHop, a Bhop who was written off as past it when he fought a UK fighter.
After Pavlik lost the same ones hailing him the next coming of christ were dismissing him as a bum.
Strange that :think
Its laughable

 

yep its quite true. Calzaghe always sought this home advantage except for with the oldies he was guaranteed to outgass, or utter shitwads like Veit 2.

yep its true. Doesnt change the fact them refs jumping in for unmigitated TKOs for Calzaghe though.

true.

All true. But nothing you said actually counterminds what I pointed out.

I'm British.

wbo title not recognised. Would you come over to London to fight for a title I just made up and noone thought carried any water? Or would you go for the WBA title on offer down the road from where you live? Simples.

However I am not taking anything away from Benn and Eubank and co who are well respected by me, not that I think my opinion ought to mean much to anyone.

Pavlik...rist were dismissing him as a bum.
Strange that :thinkIts laughable[/quote] never rated him myself.

 

First of all you didnt really take in what I said, your first comment proves that just your own anti calzaghe agenda
Ohh and did you say your a brit?
If so what was that comment about Welsh refs?
Seriously
And if you respect Benn and Eubank and not Calzaghe, then you clearly dont know the high regard both those men hold Calzaghe and the likes of Sugar Ray leonard who rated him one of the best
And your comment about not travelling for the WBO title kind of proves the stay at home attitude of US fighters doesnt it?
Calzaghe was poorly managed of that there is no doubt, but fighters from the US refused to fight him plain and simple
Benn and Eubank got the same treatment

 

.. i am a brit, end of. next question?

its you who appears to be misreading things. I respect all three, besdies others. next point...

no, it underlines that, if you dont mind the music festival analogy, you dont travel to the Shetlands to see the Folk Festival when you got Glastonbury on your doorstep.
Or maybe you are one of these few people who do, I dont know.

 

You respect all three now?

After this post? Joe could win in Wales with his Welsh biased ref and judges
Yeahh of course you do
If he had all those I would probably have agreed with you

The reason I asked if you were a brit, was because I couldnt believe a brit could say a comment about a welsh ref and judges
I am simply saying in regards to the comments about avoiding going to the US etc
The same applies to the US fighters
It works both ways

 

I suspect now that it is you who is biased if you dont actually believe a lot of Joe's stoppages in Wales were premature ref jobs. Open your eyes, dude.

not for the wbo title is wasnt. thats my point, some brit SMWs flocked around the WBO title and got ignored across the pond. wbo was worth ****, noone wanted it and so it was much easier to defend, though its better recognised now and attracts better fighters.

yeah in recognition of your effort in typing (and to avoid repeating this post ad infinitum) let me add that I agree the US fighters dont find the UK attractive for various reasons and vice versa.

 

You sound a lot like our friend Bailey.

I'll debate with you as long as you want, using logic and facts, and at the end you'll look very stupid.

The fight with Roy wasn't viable. They fought in different Countries, and at different weights. Add to the fact that Joe had a chance to go to the States in 99, and turned it down, and also nobody outside of Europe knew who he was.

The U.S. fans had only seen him a handful of times via cable, and they weren't impressed.

He did want millions! What do think he meant by wanting the crown jewels? What type of money did Joe deserve in 2002, when the comment was made? He was the WBO champ fighting in one of the weakest divisions in boxing at the time.

So after Joe had fought world class fighters, he decided to step up and challenge Roy you say? Who were the world class fighters he fought then around that period? Woodhall? Veit? Brewer? Pudwell? Jimenez? Will McIntyre? Haha!

Why would the worlds best fighter who fought at 175, have any interest in a euro 168 fighter who hardly anyone knew??

What did Joe have that Roy wanted? There was no money in the fight, and the belt that Joe had was worth a packet of crisps. Roy had given his Toney belt up years ago. Do you think Roy was going to come back down in weight to fight for Joe's mickey mouse 168 belt?

Again Kelly and Woods were mandotaries, and at the time he was fighting guys of that calibre, he'd already beaten good/great fighters like Toney, Hopkins, Malinga, Tate, Hill, Griffin, Reggie Johnson and Harding etc.

Nobody in America talked about Joe ten years ago. You're having a laugh!

You're asking me if I have a brain, and then you ask why did Joe have to fight in America???

If Joe wanted Roy Jones, and he wanted the crown jewels, then how could he get either if he wasn't prepared to go to America? Come on Einstein!

How was fighting guys like Mario Veit, Tocker Pudwell, Charles Brewer and Jiminez at 168, in Britain and Germany, going to get him a fight with the worlds best fighter at 175, for the crown jewels??

I can't ****ing wait to hear your hilarious answer!

Also, the Lacy fight at the time, wasn't a huge fight. Because again, going into the fight, nobody outside of Europe knew who Joe was, hence why most people predicted that Lacy would win. The predictions were made, because the majority of the fans in the U.S. hadn't seen him in action. Afterwards, Joe's fantastic performance catapulted him onto the big stage, but by that point, he was 34 years of age, and coming towards the end of his career.

We know all about the injustice that DM suffered. It's common knowledge. But what happened when DM had the opportunity to fight for his old belts? Nothing! He turned down two offers to go to the States to fight Roy, to get them back. You would have thought the injustice would of made him more determined to get Roy in the ring. But it didn't. He was happy defending his mickey mouse belt in Germany for decent money. Fair play to him. It wasn't worth the risk to fight Roy.

Regards, Loudon.

 

HerolGee is a complete moron who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. a waste of time.

"the WBO wasn't recognised, surely the other recognised belts dictated best SMW"

i'm not going to waste any more time with an uneducated fool. everything else you wrote was just as bad.

 

...as the WBO title? come now thats an unfair thing to say. My post isnt as bad as the WBO title used to be. I'd never compare your posts to a crap 90s world title.

you cruel man!

 

Both guys would walk through Calzaghe. There is really no question.

 

Jones vs. Calzaghe was never a big money fight when Jones was prime.. End of story...Not saying it wouldn't have been a good fight, but boxing is a business and that is the way it worked... In Roy's prime, Joe was pretty much unknown in America... I have friends who are total casual PPV buyers that still don't know much about Joe.


Roy Jones did not avoid a European fighter, not even In his weight class, not doing anything to get the fight pushed.. It makes no sense.

If Joe had moved up, beat legitimate LHW contenders, got himself known in America, I am sure Roy would have certainly fought him, It would have made business sense.

What makes no sense is Roy ducked Joe..

Joe's own words said he wanted the crown jewels.. and another occasion said he wasn't chasing Roy, because Roy is a good fighter and he doesn't want tough fights just big money... That says it all. But actions speak even louder than his words which dismiss him wanting to fight, he did nothing to make it happen.