Toney v Hagler @ MW

He isn't pressure per se but when he's in seek and destroy mode he can pin opponent against the ropes with the best of them. The lower his output, the greater toney's chance of victory imo.

Toney at his best is a valid assumption but it's hard nailing down when that was. Also depends on how you score the griffin fights. Furthermore on how you view his run at cw-hw.

He took the taking a rest to the extreme and threw rounds away in close fights where it couldn't be afforded. Hagler did this also late in his career but by and large he was very consistent.

I basically think if hagler is firing on all cylinders there's nothing toney can do to slow him down.

 

Agree with this, especially the first and last sentences.

Hagler at his best could do whatever it took imo, box at range, off the back foot, brawl, bang or apply pressure, whatever the occasion demanded.

 

He won't be fighting like that against Toney just as he didn't do this against old Duran.

 

Oh well then he's fukd.

Toney ko1 hagler.

 

We're talking a Toney who was on his game? I think Hagler would eat some clean shots early trying to box, then by the middle rounds be content to out hustle Toney. The championship rounds would really tell the story. Could the work rate and intensity of Hagler wear Toney down, or could the crisp clean right hand counters make Hagler weary enough to back off.

 

I strongly disagree.

Hagler KO1 Toney.

 

it's hard to say. Toney at 168lbs was so much better than at 160. You think the Toney that beat Charles Williams wouldn't pick Tiberi apart?

 

just stopped at this first sentence. if you think the thadzi fight was anything but a robbery you haven't seen the fight. or, you just don't know ****. Calzaghe KO1 Toney and Hagler at the same time with one hand tied behind his back, right?

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_X4ZgtTwzA&feature=relmfu[/ame]



Re-watch it, close fight and Toney did land the cleaner shots, but rounds 3-6 and 10-12, Toney was simply too passive. 115-113 to Thadzi. What did you score it?

Hagler and Toney are unstoppable, both have ATG chins. Though I do think Calzaghe would outwork and win a decision over Toney at 168

 

Ok, I rewatched rounds 3-6, and I admit I watched the fight with a bias light the first time. they were close rounds, but overall I see toney outworking Thadzi, while landing the much cleaner shots. Thadzi was very game, but I didn't think he threw enough punches to out point Toney. He was aggressive, smothering Toney, but not getting any effective shots in. Neither of them could be hurt by each other's punches. I remember giving Thadzi 3 rounds. I remember he won round 12 and 6 on my card, and one other. But most of the other rounds were counters and clean shots galore by Toney.

 

no way Hagler loses to an inexperienced Toney.

 

This might be what threw Toney's rhythm off. Thadzi constantly smothering, he was relentless in a lot of rounds. I think you can make an argument for Thadzi winning 7 rounds if you go through the fight round by round, often Toney just couldn't settle and find the openings he usually does. Even Freddie Roach was trying to get him pumped up at the end of the 10th round, saying the fight was in the balance, and that he had to go out there and hurt this guy. James clearly didn't train properly for that fight.

 

well, I can't see Thadzi winning more than 4 rounds, but i agree that Toney wasn't in his best form, as he often wasn't, because Freddie said he passed out twice trying to make 175 for this fight.

 

Hagler brings the fight to James, Toney can not out fight Marvin over 15, Hagler by UD

 

Fair enough, I respect your opinion, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Toney's talent has never been in question, it's his discipline that stopped him achieving his potential. He still came in overweight for this fight I think, I don't think he even made 175. I always thought if Toney had been disciplined throughout his career, then he could have been a real force at 175, the LHW division in the late 90's could have been Michalczewski, Jones and Toney. Instead, James would lose to club fighters, and perform sporadically, great one night, terrible the next.

At MW. I don't think James can out fight and out hustle a prime Hagler over 15 rounds. Though I agree it would be very competitive because of Toney's skill and iron chin. Marvellous is one of my all time favourite fighters, so I may be bias