Tony Ayala Jr. was a very exciting fighter...

Only Hagler had a chance against Tony.

 

Spare me the pain.........:scaredas:

MR.BILL

I'm not so sure Ayala could handle lesser guys but solid 160 pounders like Frank "The *******" Fletcher , Tony Sibson and Juan Roldan" back in '82 or '83...........

Hell, even LESSER dudes than that like Curtis Parker and James "Hard ****" Green have a chance at smoking Tony Ayala in "Dream" matches...
:bbb:rasta

MR.BILL

 

I can see you are an unbiased fan of Tony, too. How nice!

 

I'm realistic about Tony Ayala.......... I went through the whole damn hype scene and hoopla with Ayala in the early 80s and again in 1999 to 2002.... The guy had potential to be a good fighter, but he never delivered the goods.... His problems outside the ropes hindered him greatly........... Ayala was a phony baloney.... He'd do and interview and talk about class and respect, then he'd go score some Coke and look for a young woman to mug and assault..... He is a fool....
:blood:yep

MR.BILL

 

I don't know the whole story, but Epps, who was a son of a serviceman stationed in San Antonio, use to train with the Ayalas as a kid. Then, according to the Ayalas, Robbie just walked out, claiming he'd learned all he could from Tony Sr. I'm thinking that's where it all started, though I'm not sure.

Thought you might like this.

http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxing-article/2228/tony-ayala-best-prospect-all-time/

 

You are a comedian.

 

Beating drayton or Moore would have been good wins as both those guys are underrated. We will never know if Ayala had what it took to beat the 4 you mentioned,but my gut tells me he would have acquitted himself well and might have had enough to get at least 1or 2 wins. He never fought Chaverini( maybe your thinking of Gregory or cheatham) anyways he smoked Epps in 1 what rough spots are you talking about only one to really press him was Maldanado(tough journeyman) and he smoked him after turning it up a notch in only his 9th fight and had barely turned 18. As for Cuevas well he was washed up after Tommy knocked him out but to call him a limited brawler was not seeing the whole point. He defended his title 11 times 10 by knockout which is pretty impressive for being a "limited brawler".

 

Tony would have beaten Fletcher and Sibson,Hard rock Green severly:huh Curtis parker too. People want to downgrade his opposition but Epps was ranked coming in off a win against top middle dwight davison and epps was blown out.Gregory went 15 with Kalule, Maldanado was very tough and had good wins, that was a good win for ayala For that only being his 9th fight I cant think of any fighters today taking on that tough comp so early. Roldan would have been a real tough fight but hed roll over eventually,like he did against Hearns,nunn but he gave Hagler hell. SO if you wanna hate on tony then go to my poll on the general forum Oscar/tony .

 

Beibut Shumenov, Yuriorkis Gamboa, Maskaev, there have been fighters matched hard since. They were the first to come to mind, two of which in the last two years and one ten or so years ago.

Ayala was nothing special. He was, as the thread starter put it EXCITING but that doesn't a great fighter make. Even Mark Breland failed to make it as a Pro so don't say how Ayala's credentials pre-Pro means he was a shoo-in for guaranteed success and just got a bad draw.

he was crude as Hell, could hit but didn't seem anything special. He was also a bad egg outside the ring, should stop getting so much kudos IMO

 

Thoughtful post. Yeah, I meant Cheatham not Chiavarini. I got my limited, journeyman white guys mixed up (not being racist, being a limited white guy journeyman myself). I'd say Maldonado AT LEAST pressed him. He had Ayala in very bad shape and down in the first round. That's the rough spot I was referring too. The point is, making a projection from the film on Ayala, that he could beat a Hagler or a Hearns is a huge leap of faith.
You got me on the Cuevas remark. I don't think he was a great fighter but I actually made the "limited brawler" remark to jerk a certain Cuevas lover's chain a little bit. I don't think a whole lot of his title reign given the opposition he faced. It was very ordinary.
I saw potential in Ayala. I'll stand by my thought though that to suggest he could've improved, and more unlikely, maintained the discipline to beat the likes of Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler is just too much for me to believe. In my opinion, his best shot would've been against Duran. And the focused, in shape Duran who took apart Cuevas and Moore would've had way to much experience for him.

 

p.s. I think Tony Sibson was a notch above Frank Fletcher and Curtis Parker and would've been a very tough out for Ayala. Even so, Hagler's reign proved that there was a vast gulf between him and the contenders of the day (Sibson, Scypion, Lee not to mention guys who never got close to sniffing a title shot Davison, Epps). Ayala had a long way to go. Talent aside, do you think he could've maintained discipline that long? Well, that's kind of a rhetorical question with an obvious answer.

 

Well you got me on the Shumenov one Gamboas comp isnt all that not as good as ayalas only semi good guys were Jimenez,and solid vet Roger gonzales. Oleg maskaev doesnt count cuz he got knocked out in 2 of those fights your talking about. Ayala won and knocked out all his fighters. I guess you could have thrown vargas in there. To compare ayala and breland wasnt a good example cuz tonys style would have took him farther than marks in the pros and marks was better suited for the amatuers.I am a fan of ayalas fighting abilities,but you to have a point as far as the outside the ring charachter.It is just listening to his interviews andhis outside the ring storys(outside his troubles)make him a likable guy and a intriguing personality. Although his actions make him sound like a f**ked up dude.

 

I guess I'd have to borrow other people's eyes to see it with Ayala. He simply doesn't look too impressive to me, and I've seen most of his fights and know all his feats.

I think he would have had his hands full with Davey Moore and Duran would have picked him apart, perhaps ending his career early much like he did Moore's.

 

I disagree with your opinion on pipinos competition Espada was a solid champion and he knocked him out twice also knocked out former champ Backus,Talented contenders Ranzany,Clyde gray and Harold weston (who gave hearns all he could handle)and a draw with benitez.Shields was very good. His only mediocre competetion was scott clark and volbretch and even those guys had very good records and pipino blew them out. DO you actually remember Cuevas and how highly regarded he was before Hearns?

 

By the way, Sibson would've.........well, it wouldn't have been nice. He would've battered Ayala.