Tony Ayala Jr. was a very exciting fighter...

Thank God, a sane voice at last:good

 

Anarci & Laxpdx,

You guys are living on Mars with your praise for Tony Ayala.... WTF?? Why in hell would you grasp his nuts in that manner?? The vato was a bully and a criminal... He had some talent, but, it went undeveloped and the dude self-destructed from all his outside problems..... In truth, he is a pug.......

As for Ayala systematically beating champions and solid contenders from the early 80s like "Hagler, Hearns, Leonard & Duran" is utterly insane....... And dudes like "Fletcher, Sibson, Roldan, Hamsho, Parker & James Green" would definately have damn good chances at beating the raw but hard hitting Ayala back then, as well........ Christ, I'm not even sure Ayala could beat tuff as nails sparring partners like former IBF champion Buster Drayton at 154 or even rugged contender David Braxton at 154 pounds.......... Ayala was a piece of **** who owned good 154 lb. power with untested skills......

MR.BILL

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emMo0J-I-6k[/ame]

Charlie Weir TKO3 Steve Gregory
Tony Ayala KO3 Steve Gregory

Charlie Weir KO3 Jerry Cheatham
Tony Ayala TKO6 Jerry Cheatham

Charlie Weir WDQ6 Mike Baker
Tony Ayala PTS8 Mike Baker

Charlie Weird KO2 Nicanor Camacho
Tony Ayala PTS10 Nicanor Camacho

 

Duran only beat Davey Moore that badly because he thumbed him in the eye, thus closing it. Davey was an exciting young fighter, he would give a good account of himself vs. Tony before ultimately succumbing to a much superior arsenal. Duran is a natural LW, too fat at 154 and tires much quicker here. The combination of freakish power and a debilitating attack employed by young Tony would've been too much for the smaller Duran to effectively deal with.

Believe as you wish, I respect whatever your opinion is. Just as long as you don't let crowd followers like fleaman do your thinking for you.

 

I thought Weir died some yrs ago of back cancer.?.?:huh As for Moore, well, he got pinned under his Jeep and was dragged down a drive-way that was on a long incline..... A hell of a way to go back in '88.....

MR.BILL

 

Kudos to anarci for not letting the crowd influence him. Or not letting Tony's criminal record get in the way of seeing the truth. :good

 

I thought Duran took him to school. Thumb or not, I can't see Davey Moore (nor Tony Ayala) dealing with that Duran. He certainly didn't need no thumbs to beat Iran Barkley or to take Hagler the distance. I'm afraid Moore as well as Ayala Jr. were simply ideal match-ups for Duran stylistically. He dealt with Jorge Castro when he was damn near 50 years old!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlw2lpOMEoY[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMfDqZyn1NM[/ame]

I've made up my mind watching the films. I can see the appeal but I guess nothing just stands out for me. No one can truly say what he could have done for sure because we never saw his career develop as it should have.

I haven't heard anything about Weir dying myself but it would be a shame if true. He was a big puncher but Moore got there first.

Davey Moore met a tragic fate, much like the Davey Moore of the 1950's and 1960's who died in the ring. He was a very exciting fighter at his best.

 

Great A.,

YES! Duran was simply too good for the likes of Moore and Ayala.....

I can't find the details on Weir, but I read yrs ago in KO magazine that his career was cut short when doc's found cancer in his back-bone... I think he retired after beating a quality welterweight named Manning Galloway....

MR.BILL

 

That's my revision to an otherwise well-said post.

 

Yeah, I do remember the details and I remember vividly Cuevas being exposed by Hearns. Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Benitez, Hagler had memorable round robins. When Cuevas stepped up to this competition he was exposed badly and lasted less than 6 rounds total against Duran and Hearns. Those guys you mentioned were pretty good fighters, period. Kudos to Cuevas for consistency but he never beat a great fighter. I can rattle off many welterweight champions who would've gone undefeated against those guys.

 

That would have been an exciting great fight but Ayala just had way more skills he would have knocked him out in 7rounds. Sibson would definatly have his moments but his face first style would have been picked apart by ayala who eventually would have beat sibson down more brutal than Hagler,even though sibson would be more competetive than he was with marvin the end would have been ugly for sibson.:!:

 

As always I get picked up as a 'crowd follower'. The group of men that are blind to see any matchup where Camacho/Cuevas/Ayala/Norris would lose HATE me, mainly because I back up my criticisms with fact or stylistic examples.

GreatA as always employs footage to great effect, but as with the Cuevas/Price argument on another thread, certain people cannot be swayed. That's fair enough, anyone who appreciates boxing enough to have 'favourites' is good in my book :good

 

F.O.:twisted:

MR.BILL

 

I dont know what u said about Cuevas/Price but Price was a good fighter sometimes u didnt know which price was gonna show up but when he was on he was a good fighter beating 2 future hof pipino,and palomino. If you want to criticize cuevas and that loss remember that he was only 18 although he did win the titile the following month. Never been on Norris nuts like lot of other people,he had great talent but his weak chin gave almost everybody he ever fought a chance. Camacho lot s of talent but wasted alot of it,although id say hes still a future hof.

 

I can understand a fondness for certain 'under-the-radar' fighters, I for one really like Yori Boy Campas. Different kind of careers but again, a fearsome man if the ever was one and his punching power is legendary. Another for me is Howard Eastman, the gym tales of him were legendary.

Would I pick Eastman over Eubank in a prime for prime MW matchup? Even though Eastman supposedly sparked him COLD in sparring. No, of course not.

Do I think Campas would beat Ray Leonard at Welter, despite his obvious shortcomings? No, of course not.

If I did those kinda things I'd be DELUSIONAL.

Hyping Norris is fair, he was damn good and shaky chin aside amassed some good wins in a sturdy if unspectacular career (unspectacular in the way that say a bona fide ATG's career would be, but very good nonetheless) but to say he would have a chance against Monzon at 160 (not directed at you ladpxjajksd specifically but even you said he would 'give Monzon trouble with his speed and get clinched coming in' or something to that effect)

What I'm saying is, you have to be unbiased. Alexis Arguello is my favourite fighter of all time, I admire him as a fighter so much, but I admit his shortcomings. I pick certain fighters to beat him pretty easily in fact.

You say the only person with a chance of beating Ayala would be Hagler. Assuming that Hagler is considered one of the greatest middles of all time would you say that Ayala would beat the likes of (next tier down as you say Hagler has a chance so a random pick of fighters that aren't a lock for a top 5 spot, totally random names here)

Dick Tiger, Carmen Basilio, Jake Lamotta, Rodrigo Valdez, Charley Burley would have no chance against Ayala?