Tony Ayala vs Hagler

..ayala was mostly a fraud....exciting on tv but not in the class of any top middleweights. i'm trying to stay away from fantasy fights, but this one drew me out. hagler walks right through him and might even make him quit.

 

against Ray he didn't look great, but it was the comparison which made him look bad. Against Ayala he would seem quicker and his punches harder.

 

Ayala couldn't hurt Marvin. Marvin took punches from Hearns and Mugabi and Hamsho. Compared to those guys Ayala isn't going to hurt him.

 

That's where people are dead wrong, when they say Ayala didn't have the power to hurt people, esp. an old, worn-out Hagler. Either they're reading too much into Tony's "unprovenness", or they just simply don't like him. It's not the difference of opinion that I have an issue with, it's the dislike-for-Ayala bias some of them are based upon, as opposed to logic. Tony's horrendous crimes have nothing to do with fighting ability or lack thereof.

 

BTW, even though I picked Tony to outpoint Marvin, I wouldn't rule out a stoppage win either. Like you said, Hagler was chopped liver at that point, whereas Ayala would likely be peaking. The young bull would bring too much power and aggression for yesterday's king-turned senior citizen to cope with.

 

Hagler was past his best in 1987,but far from shot. Ayala would n't have stood a chance. Even against this version of Marvin.

 

A psyched Hagler would destroy Ayala in 3 rounds, causing Tony Sr, Mike, and Sammy Ayala to carry Tony from the ring afterwards.

 

I stand in the middle of the Ayala debate between his nuthuggers and those who laugh at the unproven prospect he was. Yes he was a talented prospect, no he wasn't as talented as any of the Fab 5 or McCallum for that matter. But Ayala was good maybe as good or even better than Mugabi or Sibson, maybe not quite that good, the jury is out on that

Hagler was not shot, Ayala would pressure Hagler, Hagler would land better counters, be the sharper more accurate puncher, boss with his jab at times, be much stronger and take some punishment but do far more damage to stop Ayala around 7 or 8 rounds I'm guessing

This thrad has HUGE AGENDA WRITTEN ALL OVER IT. Supposedly Hagler was shot and Ayala could do better than Leonard, so the Leonard win means nothing because Ayala could do a better jab as Redrooster hates Leonard with a vengendance.

 

Much in the way Duran fans are offended, in that they and so many others think only Hearns was capable of KOing Roberto.

 

Well I disagree. I admit Hagler was not in great shape against Ray and was rusty and had only 2 fights since Hearns, which was his last fight in shape and sharp, but Ray had something to do with Marvin looking even worse than he was in that fight, and he studied Marvin to beat him. The Weaver triplets stuff is nonsense. Actually fighting would have been different. Ayala is not Ray's style. Marvin would have looked closer to the Hagler of old after a few rounds with Ayala, than he ever did with Leonard. To think that Ayala studied Hagler and would make Hagler miss like Ray did, I just do not see it. Marvin liked to brawl and it would have brought out a better Marvin. Ray made Hagler look lifeless. Fact is I think Tommy Hearns did diminish Hagler a lot, whether it was Hearns or the fact that after Hearns-Marvin did not have as much motivation to get to that frenzied level. But I think Ray did make Marvin look worse. If we are going to go by sparring, Ray looked bad against Quincy Taylor.

 

I think Ray studied Hagler and that was his focus since 1982 to fight Hagler. He even came back in 1984 not to fight Hearns or Duran again, but to fight Hagler. He had his Kevin Howard comeback and it was not successful, but really at that time Ray might not have had as much confidence to beat Hagler, even though he did want to fight Hagler then after seeing Marvin struggle a little against Duran and then against Roldan. Go forward to late 84, Marvin looks powerful stopping Hamsho and then good in the brawl with Hearns in April of 85. 1986, Hagler is off a year, and Marvin stuggled with Mugabi and Ray goes to the Maryland studio to say he wanted to fight Hagler. Many things contributed, but Hagler fought the wrong guy with Ray and also coming out right handed in rounds one and two was not smart. Everything worked in Ray's favor. Ray thought about Marvin for 5 years. He was top notch.
I like Tony Ayala's style and it was exciting and maybe he could have beaten Davey Moore, but Ayala would not have beaten Duran or Hearns or Hagler or Leonard or Benitez. Why? He just did not have experience with that level of fighter yet. There is nothing which shows he could have beaten that level. Which fighter did Tony Ayala beat which equals the level of beating Hagler?