Tony Canzoneri vs JM Marquez @ lightweight... who would win?

Berg was only stopped once in his career. By Canzoneri. And he fought beer opposition than Marquez. This should show you how good his power was.
Canzoneri's defense based mostly on reflexes. Watch the Berg figh and stop the vid everytime you think Berg landed a punch. Most of the time you can see that Canzoneri either moved out of the way and Berg missing by a hair or that Canzoneri rolled with the punches.
Canzoneri had his own style, acttually he reminds me of Jones a times.

 

Canzoneri was a counterpuncher himself. An aggressive one. He came to you with the hands low, feinting you, build traps for you and when you fall for it he counters you. And he was great in doing that. That often looked like brawling but he is actually counterpunching his opponent silly.

 

:good

I agree with this but I think the ransition period was over by the time Canzoneri hit his prime. The rule changes to 15 rounds, neutral corner rule and everything what made modern boxing came in 1920. The 1920s where the transition ime. By the late 20s/early 30s this was over I think.

 

Still a lot more changes came after the war.

*Glove changes starting rolling out in the 40's I believe. Going from 5 and 6 ounce gloves..to 8 ounce gloves.

*Coming down hard on rabbit punching after a couple of deaths in the ring that were attributed to blows to the back of the head. Hard to say when in really came into practice , still plenty of examples of fighters who employed this tactic in the 50's and 60's....but I remember reading an article regarding this, I think the Illinois Commission started the movement...at the time Im pretty sure they were one of the biggest in the country. Definitely a general shift in interpretations of the rules around this time and I think that changed boxing a lot.

*Some states only brought in the rule where you get a rest period after a foul in the late 30's, in fact I think some still did not have one till even later then that.

* Dont think the mandatory 8 count came in till much later.


*Of course scoring was a few years off having the 10 must system.

Changes got fairly political and sweeping in the 50's from what Ive read...many probes were ordered, bills were passed...mainly to do with health and safety and trying to weed out the Mob's influence on boxing, as well as all the other shifty ****s that were muddying the sports reputation at the time.

 

Canzoneri all day everyday.

 

True but outside of the change of gloves none of these changes would really effect fighter's style. The changes are insignificant in the greater scheme of things. The glove changed do but I think the big gloves of today actually led to diminishing skills and not the other way around - especially defensive techniques.

 

The changes in the interpretations of rules would certainly have some impact on styles...Guys like Ambers, Zivic, Mandell, Saddler et al couldnt have gotten away with their shenanigans in this era.
Also think you can take something out of the foul rule and mandatory 8 count...because if you foul and guy and he gets a rest then it really wasnt worth it, so you have to rethink your tactics. Probably a ton of knockouts were prevented because a fighter was given some precious extra seconds to get his bearings.

Perhaps it wouldnt have a profound effect on styles but tactically a lot of fighters would have had to change things up. I think such changes benefitted the light hitting slickster of the Pep, Pastrano, Dupas mould because it became increasingly more about skill rather then having to deal with a range of underhanded tactics that often those guys werent nearly as good at compared to the roughousers of the time.

Plus I dont really see how the changes you mentioned has anything to do with styles changing anyway bods me old pal. I mean the neutral corner rule?

 

You have a point here but would this apply in this match-up? Rather not, which proves my point that Canzoneri's style was well fitted for today's rules.

 

:huh

Ive said that aswell a couple of times already I didnt think that was what we were talking about.

Maybe we got a bit off topic there, I thought we were discussing changes in the sport in general around that time and that makes his era somewhat of a transition period.

Anyway...Tony Canzoneri = Awesome and he would beat Marquez at lightweight.

 

Hm, it was my original point that Canzoneri's style was suied for today's rules. I agree the sport changed but imo the changes which lead to the improvement in skills happened in 1920 and the transition era was already over when Canzoneri hit his prime. There were changes afterwards like you pointed out but these weren' significant enough to really change the sport, especially to the better. I think the sport was at his peak between the 30s and the 70s.

Agreed. The more I dig into Canzoneri, Ross, McLarnin, Ambers, Armsrong and so on the more I'm in awe. Not even the Pacquiao's or Mayweather's of today really compare to what was going on back then.

 

I think Canzoneri beats he Pac of fw/sfw/lw but loses against the Pac of now.

 

Well, I guess he would simply be too big for Canzoneri. Canzoneri was at his best at 130/135 and when he was at his career highest weight, which would be slightly less than Pac fights now, he was already past it. Pac would have something between 10-15 pounds on him. As good as Canzi is I can't see him overcome this against Pac, not even in his own time.