Tony Zale vs the MW of the last 30 yrs

must be a great life when you're never wrong.

the thread may have been about zale, a man who obviously ducked his best challengers, but this conversation is about the fact you said marciano(who i also think is massively overated by some) didn't have the ballz to fight the best black guys. Valdez was in position for his shot, then he lost to another black guy who did get the fight, no lack of ballz, just beating the #2 in the division, regardless of colour. Are you wrong or is my explanation of the events that caused valdez not to get his shot wrong?

 

my opinion is that the sky is tartan with pink spots, what more do you want from me? you want me to look at the facts? ok then, my opinion was wrong because the sky is blue(or usually grey in england).

 

it's a poor group of beltholders but i'd pick zale over 2/4 current champions, make him fav v lemiux and he could beat cotto too.

 

Burt, the Murders' Row fighters were up against it during their careers. They rarely had a chance to fight in the major American boxing venues of the time.
Can you believe that Charley Burley fought only once in New York City as a professional boxer? That single bout took place at St. Nick's, hardly a major venue.

How were Burley and the other boxers of Murders' Row going to become good gate attractions under such circumstances? Because the Murderers' Row boxers weren't good gate attractions, it didn't make financial sense for popular boxers such Tony Zale and Sugar Ray Robinson fight them. Jake LaMotta did fight three Murderers' Row fighters, Lloyd Marshall, Holman Williams and Bert Lytell. But during the middle 1940s, LaMotta was more willing to fight the best, white or black, than any other top white middleweight.

- Chuck Johnston

 

:good

Chuck, you don't have to tell me that the "Murderous Row" fighters were not good gate attractions. I know that was the case...But do not blame a Tony Zale for that. And another thing,
Why were such great black fighters I saw numerous times amongst the greatest ring attractions during the days of the Murderous Row ? I am talking about Ray Robinson, Beau Jack, Ike Williams, Kid Gavilan and other black fighters who were
wonderful gate attractions at that time ? Why those fighters I mentioned who drew great crowds , but not a Holman Williams,
Burt Lytell, Charley Burley ? They were all black fighters but they were crowd pleasers like a SRR, a Beau Jack who sold out MSG 7 times in one year. Or Kid Gavilan whose crowd pleasing style made the "Keed" a great gate attraction those days ? Chuck I think you know the answer...Holman Williams, Charley Burley and the southpaw Bert Lytell, though top fighters were not
the same drawing cards as SRR, Beau Jack, Kid Gavilan and Ike Williams...Sad but true....
At any rate you cannot blame a Tony Zale for this true fact of life. After 4 of his prime years in the Navy he was discharged and
knowing he didn't have much left in the tank Tony Zale did the right thing for his family and chose the greatest and most colorful
gate attraction Rocky Graziano 3 times and a rampaging tough Frenchman Marcel Cerdan to fight..... These guys drew tons of money and Zale did the sensible thing. Murderers Row had top fighters but they DID NOT DRAW THE CROWDS THAT A SUGAR RAY ROBINSON, A BEAU JACK, A KID GAVILAN, AN IKE WILLIAMS DID...So don't blame a decent and brave Tony Zale who served his country for 4 long years...As JFK said-
"life is not fair "...

 

Jack Sharkey saw him fight in Europe and came home raving about him:good.

 

Well I think the money and conditions and boxing was just better in Australia at the time, despite an unfounded and unproven comment or two about the scene there from some dude here boxers were treated well and fans were in awe of them all. Eddie McGoorty was hugely popular at the time, fans and writers were abuzz at the way he could knock out almost anyone, including heavyweights. Jeff Smith was popular until his fights with the champ. Dave Smith and Mick King tours america a couple of times during this time but really with the war things were winding down at a fast clip, when Darcy left the scene suddenly went into a drought until the war ended. After the war something happened which made a huge impact, that something was called Jack Dempsey, suddenly with his win over Willard boxing became MASSIVE and money was everywhere. Aussie fighters found it harder to go to America, it was a nightmare to even find an opponent.

 

Dawson had an amateur career, Vic didn't. Whatever you may say, Dawson was a terrific fighter. Vic Patrick was no slouch but he had to fight guys too big for him, his most famous victory was against Aussie welter champ Tommy Burns II but he also fought a kiwi LHW and got hurt, that wouldn't have helped him. Dawson beat everyone he fought here.

 

I'm not sure where this "Zale was ducking" stuff comes from.

He won the NBA middleweight title in July 1940, and he joined the Navy in March 1942.
In that time he was supposed to fight the entire "murderer's row" ?

 

Any concrete evidence to support your opinion?

 

I asked you first

There were 5 hall of fame middleweights at near there primes in zales era whom Tony never fought.


Charley Burley
Ezzard Charles
Archie Moore
Holman Williams
Lloyd Marshall

he would not fight any of the murderers row

How could you possibly rank zale highly when his resume is so untested against elite opponents?

 

The reason there are books out there about black murderers row is because white champions like zale refused to fight them

Zale knew what the result would be