Tony Zale vs the MW of the last 30 yrs

Klompton is right to say Zale cherry picked after the war, no one has really argued against that, what they have done is give solid reasons why he did.

 

You're the one who claimed zale missed out on fighting all those names

You changing your tune?

 

Very interesting, thanks a lot.

 

This is even more interesting. Thanks.

I was under the impression that SRR didn't want to fight Zale?

 

:good

 

Burt,

to your knowledge, did Ray ever pursue a fight with Zale?


Thanks.

 

Honestly L, I remember those days very well and I have never heard of SRR ever bringing up a challenge to fight the bigger, stronger Tony Zale. And Robinson I am sure was influenced by the terrible close call Robby had against my neighbor Artie Levine
also a middleweight who by fair standards of boxing most likely Ko'd Robinson in Cleveland in 1946, when Levine a tough good
puncher DROPPED Robinson on his back, but the referee
walked Artie Levine all the ways to a neutral corner, then strolled
back to the fallen Robinson before he started the ONE COUNT. It was said about 17 seconds elapsed before Robinson arose off the canvas...I remember a few days after when I went to Stillman's gym on a Saturday many gym rats were talking about how Artie Levine got shafted. So maybe this reinforced Robinson's decision to avoid tackling the MUCH,MUCH better and harder punching Tony Zale...At any rate L, SRR ruled the boxing world those days and IF he truly wanted to fight a Tony Zale he COULD HAVE....
And it must be noted that of all the top light heavyweights those days Robinson chose the lightest hitting LH those days Joey Maxim, who truly didn't hit as hard as some MWs of that time.
There was a famous song those days from the musical Pajama Games. The song was "Whatever Lola Wants, Lola Get's".
Well whatever Robinson wanted those days, Robinson GOT.
But he DIDN'T want Tony Zale...

 

Here's a newspaper saying robinson wanted a crack at zale.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAIBAJ&sjid=RuUDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7022,635632&hl=en

 

While reading Harry Otty's biography of Charley Burley, it occurred to me that Burley probably never made more than $4,500. for a bout or more than $100,000. during his boxing career. When Burley fought Oakland Billy Smith in Oakland, California on April 24, 1946, the bout reportedly drew a gate of $14,060., probably the largest ever that Burley drew while fighting in a stand-alone main event.

As I noted before, Burley didn't fight in so many important American boxing venues during his career. That meant a number of biggest American matchmakers and promoters weren't very interested in staging bouts involving Burley.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Chuck, why is it that during the 1940s when Charley Burley and the "murderers row" flourished, Burley, Holman Williams, Bert Lytell, Eddie Booker etc, never made much money, whilst black fighters such as my favorites that I saw ringside such as Ray Robinson, Beau Jack, Ike Williams, Sandy Saddler, Kid Gavilan
not only were tremendous drawing cards, but all WON Titles
to boot ??? If the murderers row guys never made money or titles, whilst their bretheren fighters drew large gates and were in great demand and won titles, why WAS THAT ? Might it not very well be that A Robinson, Beau Jack, Ike Williams, Kid Gavilan, Sandy Saddler were more popular because they had more pleasing boxing styles for boxing fans to pay money to see fight ???.To use an ****ogy. Billy Graham, as great a classic boxer I ever saw, drew fairly at the gate compared to his less
skilled but more powerful stablemate Rocky Graziano who packed the crowds to the rafters everytime he fought...Why because Rocky gave what the boxing fans wanted, plain and simple.
How great a fighter a Charley Burley might have been, he wasn't as exciting to watch as a Ray Robinson, Tony Zale, Beau Jack
or yes Rocky Graziano....

 

Burt, Archie Moore was one of the Murderers' Row boxers, too. Like others in the group, Moore had a tough time getting lucrative bouts for many years. In fact, Moore's transformation into a very popular fighter was astounding. Could it that television helped him make the transformation? After all, he seemed like a natural for television with his engaging personality in addition to being in some memorable televised bouts.

It seems that the rest of Murderers' Row was stuck with no way out. I am one who doesn't blame more popular fighters for avoiding them. It did make any business sense to for popular fighters to take a risk in fighting them. When telling myself that professional boxing is a business, I begin to realize that the fight game is decidedly unfair in many cases.

In many ways, Charley Burley had a very tough life. But in addition to being a very stable and devoted family man, he had a terrific work ethic when holding down any job, not to mention the fact that he was a truly great fighter.

- Chuck Johnston

 

I didn't claim ,claim implies there is doubt.There is no doubt he missed them, why he missed them is the argument.
I don't have a set tune Suze, I try and look at both sides of the coin.

You should try it some time.I can recommend it.:good

 

I do I just don't like fighters who don't fit my criteria . If you think he does fit my criteria let me know but he scores low marks and all three major categories

 

We all have our favourites and those we are not so keen on, but you are making guys like Zale and Dempsey into a fulltime obsession

 

Criteria to you SQ denotes AGENDA...You truly are OBSESSED, more so than any poster on this forum. Try to look at both sides of a coin. It won't hurt, I promise you...