Tony Zale vs the MW of the last 30 yrs

McVey I really hope you didn't stop at my Burley comment and went on to read the rest of my rebuttal post to SuzieQ. i am rather proud of it, maybe I should write a book

 

Moore was the number 1 contender for Zale's frozen title in1942.

He lost that ranking when in1943 he was beaten by Chase and Wade ,two Burley victims.Moore fought Burley in Jan 1944 and was dropped multiple times to lose a decision.
Burley was in the top three for 4 years of Zale's title reign.

 

I just noticed Burley could just manage a draw against Abrams yet Zale and Robinson and Fred Apostoli beat Abrams.

 

I just noticed Burley could just manage a draw against Abrams yet Zale and Robinson and Fred Apostoli beat Abrams.

 

I posted that and added that the draw was debatable, most thought Burley had deserved the nod.

 

Maybe you should check Box rec before making some of your more " sweeping "statements.:yep

 

Tony Zale never would have become champion if he had to fight one of the black murderers row

 

Zale defending the title in 46 against graziano over lamotta was a joke. Graziano knew lamotta well and knew he stood no chance against him. Zales reign would have come to an end vs lamotta

In zales prime he would have gotten smoked by Archie Moore Ezzard Charles Charley burley Lloyd Marshall Holman Williams and Eddie booker

 

If he had fought them in 1940 when he beat Hostak for the WBA title I would give him an excellent chance!

Only Moore of the" row" was ranked in the top ten, at number 4.
At the end of December 1939 Moore was beaten by Shorty Hogue ,and Shorty repeated the feat in January 1940!

 

I am not sure if Bert Lytell is one of them but I just shot any claim he had to greatness down in flames, he has an awful resume, Zale would have killed him, I hope for the sake of your argument that the rest of the murderers row have better records than Bert, go check out my repost on the top 50 middleweights thread of McGrains.

 

Which statement do you have a problem with mate ?

 

Thanks for that, I am getting tired of some of the post SuzieQ has made lately and you saved me from having to speak directly to him, he has a right to an opinion but opinions are like a*sholes, everyone has one. I haven't gone as strong at him as you have here but gee I am so glad you did. We all make mistakes, even a sturdy bloke like our McGrain made a big one when he put Bert Lytell in his top 50 MWs, he had him above guys with resumes and records ten times better than Bert Lytell, oh sure he had a win against Burley and Holman Williams and two against Kid Cocoa but he lost like 14 fights to complete novices and outright bums and Burley also beat him and so did Holman, not to mention a loss to LaMotta..... of all those names at MW only LaMotta has a strong case to beat Zale I think, but I don't think a walk up brawler can beat Zale without a knockout punch. Graziano had so many faults but he had that punch that could stop anybody in their tracks and it worked for one fight.

 

The Murderers row mob generally do not impress me a hell of a lot, not sure if Lytell or Cocoa Kid were part of that group. the problem with most of them is that for every good win over a name fighter they have losses that usually cancel that out, in some cases there loss ledger far outweighs their good wins which makes them look a bit like journeymen, some are just above journeyman status, Bert Lytell is one of those. Cocoa Kid had a LOT of fights yet Lytell beat him twice. Cocoa Kids record stood at 176-56-11... a lot of wins but also 56 losses is an enormous tally of losses, some losses are against nobodies and as we are talking Middleweights the Kid only became a MW very late and he fought Holman williams almost as many times as Britton and Kid Lewis fought and they pretty much shared the wins and losses.... these guys generally have very mixed results throughout their careers, ok so Zale took 6 years to reach the higher eschelons and had lost to quite a few journeymen but once there he proves his mettle and on top of that his wins are almost all by stoppage past that point. Another murderers row guy Lloyd Marshall had a pretty good record but he lost nearly a third of his fights his record is 75-25-4. He sure ain't no Darcy, Holman Williams didn't have a punch, his KO percentage was just %19. a far cry from Zales power...... I could go on but i am going to cover the records of all the murderers row in great detail in McGrains MW top 50 thread.

 

Suzie...is there anything about Zale that you like at all? Does he have any redeeming qualities in your eyes?