'Tony Zale would lick him' Graziano when asked about a SRR vs Zale match up

I think Rocky is just bitter because he managed to beat Zale once & put up a good effort the other 2 times where as he was KTFO by 1 right hand to the chin in 3 short rds by Robinson.

The best MWT version of SRR would ass whip any version of Zale, Graziano is punch drunk or as said above, bitter.

 

Ray would win more than not, Zale could find a victory here and there, but all the fights would be for the most part good.

 

remember,Artie Levine a good punching MW who had Ray Robinson on his back for 17 seconds or so,when the referee walked to a neutral corner with Artie Levine and back to the floored Robinson,before starting the one count, was not half the fighter the prime pre war Tony Zale was...So I have Tony Zale beating any version of the lighter Ray Robinson...Zale was better at his best than any middleweight Robinson beat with the possible exception of Jake LaMotta...We must also remember that the Jake LaMotta who was stopped by Robinson in their last bout in 1951, had to lose about 10 pounds right before the bout...Jake was severely weight drained for the fight,and he did real well before the last few rounds....Robinson was a better P4P fighter than the peak Tony Zale
but Zale was called called " the man of steel " for a good reason...Robinson never met as
powerful a body puncher as Zale was.

 

If Billy Soose and Nate Bolden could both beat Zale by fighting more or less in an Ali moving and boxing type style so could prime SRR.
Ray Arcel said...You ask me what makes a fighter great?? I ask....Can he adapt??
SRR could Zale?? No way. One style fighter Blast forward and destroy.

 

Zale's list of title challengers wasn't a who's who of ATGs either.

And Zale had a habit of getting bounced off the canvas by punchers who weren't in Robinson's class, as well as getting outboxed by solid but unspectacular stick-and-movers.

Robinson outclasses him in every way.

 

Yes Billy Soose decisioned Tony Zale...And Ray Robinson was a greater P4P fighter than Tony Zale or Billy Soose ,no doubt. But Zale gave a prime Billy Conn a good bout though outweighed by more than 10 lbs just before Zale went into the Navy...At his best Zale stopped the murderous punching Al Hostak,beat Fred Apostoli, the prime tough Georgie Abrams, kod the tough Ossie Bulldog Harris 1 rd,and THIS Tony Zale I believe would have beaten the past prime MW Ray Robinson...Ray Robinson was in his prime as a welterweight and not as a middleweight...
One more point: In the time of Fullmer, Olsen, Basillio etc, Tony Zale pre
WW2, was considered superior to this group by boxing people of the time...
All who gave Robinson trouble...This I recall vividly, for what it's worth...

 

Burt, Ray Arcel handled Tony Zale and said he'd lose to Hagler.

Zale vs Conn was a stinker one sided fight.
Soose and Nate Bolden beat Zale by adapting the proper style to his rushing/swarming
And u overly pick on SRR for his off night performances. No fair!

 

I think Robinson circa 1950 [when he held the Pennsylvania State World MW Title concurrently with the World WW Championship] would have taken the decision over Tony.

John Garfield has implied that the SSR who knocked out Olson over 12 in their first match less than two weeks before Robby's televised bout with Bobby Dykes might have been Ray at his best for 160.

For Zale, I do think we need to carefully consider his loss to Soose, the knockdowns he sustained in Hostak I & II, Mamakos II and Abrams, all wins where Tony sustained early round losing knockdowns before coming on strong behind his body attack.

Graziano can't be considered a terrific authority on Robinson, as he didn't battle Ray in an extended war of attrition. LaMotta aside, Bobo Olson would have also had an excellent idea of what Robby was all about, both peak and past peak.

Not sure how well Rocky could accurately assess Zale either, as Tony was past peak for each of their bouts. But fights I & II between them were wars, and 1950 Ray had the skills and ability to avoid that scenario over 1940 Zale until securing an insurmountable lead on the cards.

As tall and thin as Robby was, he was no front running Hearns when it came to stamina, toughness under fire, and withstanding body shots [a tactic he himself showed tremendous efficacy with against Dykes]. While I think Zale does close strongly in the latter rounds, he'd be facing enough of a deficit by then to need a stoppage win, something that just wasn't going to happen.

To me, it would be far more interesting to know the take Abrams had on comparing Zale with Robinson. He dropped a split decision over ten to Ray at the tale end of his career [near Robby's peak in May 1947], and battled Zale over 25 completed rounds in 1940. Georgie also had that trio of wins over Soose. Maybe there's a record of his take on peak Zale vs peak SRR. Unlike Graziano, he consistently competed on even terms with both over the distance at their respective bests. [Not sure how seriously we can take an SD between Robinson and Abrams. SRR-Dykes on television was an MD, and there's just no way Bobby deserved to actually be even on any of the cards.]

 

As JFK said "life is not fair". Your point is valid that what a bigger Billy Soose or Nate Bolden could do, so COULD Ray Robinson...Fair enough S.
My rebuttal is what a puncher like an Artie Levine can do to Robinson,
Tony Zale might have finished the job...Fair assumption also on my part...
P.S. To add substance to my claim, Nate Bolden also beat the esteemed Jake LaMotta...

 

This thread's GP's transparent way of saying he has twice-the-bottle of Zale.

 

Yeah, but he also said "I would never classify Hagler as a great fighter" and then went on to say that Graziano would beat Hagler. Nutty stuff.

So how do we take his comment on Hagler-Zale? I dunno.

 

My own take is that Zale gives him hell (as almost every tough MW did), but that SRR finds a way to win a close decision. Robby is bruised, cut and battered at the end, though.

 

As often as Zale was down -- be it off-balance or just too vulnerable by eating too many clean shots or a combination thereof -- I can't see Ray failing to drop him, probably more than once. He takes a decision at the very least.