Too Good For His Own Good

They fought each other twice and Charles won by decision in both times.

 

Was Archie Moore drained against Burley ? I know he drained himself years later to maintain the 175 limit . Against Burley he was only 161 , and never came back to that weight again and his listed weights grew quickly since that point.

 

Here's an interesting article/interview I came across in an Boxing Illustrated from the 60's
'THE GREATEST
CHAMPION THAT
NEVER WAS'
Charley Burley was too good for his own
good — or was he? By JOHN LUCERO
Hurley was a master boxer and a potent puncher who -won over
men he spotted twenty pounds or -more, few men his own size were
willing to fight him.
SOME fighters aren't good enough
to be ranked among the all-time
greats of fistiana. Charley Burley was
too good.
Who was Charley Burley? In his
prime he was one of the most evaded
fighters in ring history, and for
one simple reason: Fear.
As a welterweight—and later middleweight—
Burley had no peer in
natural ability. He had it all. He
defeated some very great fighters
and was dodged by champions in
147 and 160 pound classes. This
alone might place him among ring
history's most feared battlers.
What Burley had that made his
opponents fear him was the ability
to whip any fighter his weight and
to drub middleweights, light heavyweights
and even heavyweights.
Burley was aptly named "The
fighter nobody wants to fight."
Ask the fighters of some 20 years
back and beyond. Managers, promoters,
trainers and the fans themselves
will attest to this.
Former Los Angeles boxing writer
Gordon Macker put it emphatically
in 1942 when Burley, then at
his peak, was one of the world's
most crafty and dangerous fighters:
"Here's the greatest fighter in the
world and he doesn't even train."
And why, at times, didn't Burley
train properly? After he had whipped
the best welters and middleweights
in the world he ran out of
opponents. This caused his attitude
to change and he would train only
hard enough to fight heavier men.
There are good fighters, some very
good. Burley -was a great fighter.
Many writers labeled him "a cutie
. . . but dangerous." Others, "He's
too good for his own good."
Burley fought 19 years as a pro

and amateur (1932-51). Later in his
career when forced to fight much
heavier and taller opponents, he
seemed to specialize in making the
bigger boys look awkward. Little
Charley would toy with them for a
few rounds, get down to business
and whip them. He was a devastating
puncher, from any position.
Doubts about Burley's fighting
abilities are rubbed out by the word
of ex-light heavyweight champion
Archie Moore, former welter champ
Fritzie Zivic, triple champion Henry
Armstrong, ex-middleweight champions
Billy Soose and Ray Robinson,
and such contenders as Jack Chase,
Holman Williams and Lloyd Marshall.
Of these, all but Armstrong and
Robinson fought Burley. Neither
Hammerin' Hank nor the great Robinson
would have anything to do
with the explosive Pittsburgh marvel.
The late Chalky Wright, former
feather king, once commented on
Burley's pursuit of a fight with Robinson:
"They did a smart thing in steering
Robinson clear of Burley. They
didn't come any better than Charley.
If anyone deserved a title shot during
those years it was Burley. Nevir
have I seen anyone with such outstanding
ability, nor as dangerous.
He was the greatest I ever saw."
Wright also commented on Rocky
Graziano, ex-middleweight champion.
"Rocky? Ha ha," he laughed.
"Rocky wouldn't have hit him with
a hand full of rice and would have
ended flat on his back. Burley would
have beaten anyone his weight if
given the chance."
Sugar Ray himself, in a Los Angeles
interview, admitted:
"Anybody who would pursue a
fight with Burley would have to be
crazy. He was a tremendously dangerous
fighter . . . I have to admit
that I have my doubts I could have
licked him in my prime years."
Burley was asked if he thought
he could have beaten Robinson.
"I wish I would have fought him
. . . yes, I'm positive I could have
beaten him. But Ray refused by asking
for too much money," he said.
Perhaps here's why many good
fighters evaded Charley—
—Bnrley soundly whipped Archie
Moore and floored the Mongoose
five times during their 1943 middleweight
bout in Los Angeles.
—Blasted out two unanimous decisions
in three fights with Fritzie
Zivic in 1938 and 1939. ("I was
Fritzie's boss," he says).
—Holds three knockout wins over
"Young Joe Louis" (Jack Chase),
considered a truly great fighter. The
first kayo came in 1942 for the California
160 pound title, ending a
five-year unbeaten streak for the
Denver Phantom.
—Fought clever, cunning middleweight
Holman Williams five times,
winning three, one by kayo in nine
rounds.
—As an over-stuffed welter, twice
punched out unanimous decisions
over California light heavyweight
champ Oakland Billy Smith (later
Boardwalk Billy Smith and kayo
winner over Harold Johnson).
—Startled the boxing world in
1942 by knocking out heavyweight
J. D. Turner in Minneapolis. Burley
spotted the giant some 70 pounds
and about 7 inches in height, yet cut
Turner down in five rounds. The big
Texan was floored three times.
—Easily defeated Billy Soose in
1938 before the collegian won the
middleweight title. Burley gave
Soose a boxing lesson and sound
drubbing for 10 rounds.
—Pulled another "stunner" in
1945 at Willie Orner's Los Angeles
Main Street Gym where he floored
heavyweight Elmer "Violent" Ray
with 14 ounce gloves. Ray had run
up a long knockout streak at the
time.
"Most people won't believe it but
I sure did," Burley said when asked
for confirmation.
One of the few fights that actually
marred Burley's record was a split
decision loss to the great Lloyd Marshall.
Marshall, kayo winner over
Ezzard Charles and the late Freddie
Mills, out-weighed Charley some 12
pounds in that one.
In his unique prose, Archie Moore
describes Burley's abilities, the method
by which J. D. Turner was
bombed and what he felt Burley's
chances would have been against
Ray Robinson:
. . . "handsome as a movie star,
he smiled quizzically as he carefully
prepared to answer an interviewer's
query: 'Why do you fight men so
much bigger than you?? (Burley:
'You see, whenever I fight a man

 

my size it's like I'm taking advantage
of some little guy/)
". . » well, this was perhaps the
way the cruel, hard-fisted, elusive,
smallish victor over Fritzie Zivic
felt after smashing a big Texas
heavyweight (Turner, scaling 220
to Barley's 151, to a five-round kayo
. . . placing elongated feet encased
in custom-built boxing shoes squarely
on the floor, left toe between
Turner's two feet, his right heel
raised slightly to apply more leverage
as he swayed like a "Georgia
pine" in a southern twister, making
Turner swing like a rusty gate while
absorbing precisely placed volleys of
shots which soon had him stumbling
around the ring like a blind sow
looking for acorns.
. . . every decade or so comes
forth a fighter of such natural abilities.
One begins to wonder why
these tactics are not preserved for
fighters who reach the height of
their abilities and need "that something
extra" to distinguish them
from a good fighter to a great fighter.
Charley Burley was a great fighter
. . . Ray Robinson was asking sums
that were outrageous to fight beltin*
Burley. Ray must be given plenty
of credit. However, had fate smiled
and pointed her finger in Charley's
direction, it would have been Charley
Burley instead of Ray Robinson."
Being possessed of these qualities,
why then was the Pittsburgh belter
deprived of a title fight? Burley had
no illusions:
"They just wouldn't fight me.
They thought I was too dangerous
. . . they didn't want to risk any
chances with me."
By "they" Burley meant welterweight
chalnpions Armstrong, Freddie
"Red" Cochrane, Zivic, middleweight
champions Rocky Graziano,
Marcel Cerdan, jfake LaMotta, Tony
Zale and welter-middleweight king
Robinson.
"I just kept fighting and hoping
that I'd get a shot at someone's title.
Well, you know I never got the
opportunity," he said sadly.
Burley was born in Bessemer, Pa.,
49 years ago, and at an early age
moved to Pittsburgh. He began his
amateur career at 17 under a trio of
managers: Leonard Payne, Harold
Turner, and his discoverer—Chappie
Goldstein.
Burley won 72 of 78 amateur
fights, won the Golden Gloves and
A.A.U. titles. He went to the Olympic
trials in Cleveland, losing to Leo
Sweeney in the finals. Burley calls
Sweeny and Billy Soose his toughest
amateur opponents.
What motivated Burley to become
a professional?
"Hunger inspired me to turn pro.
I had no boyhood idol ... no hero
inspiration. I was just a hungry fighter,"
he said.
Burley, at 19, beat Ray Gray in
his first pro fight in 1936. He was
managed at that time by Morris
Sulstky, Turner and Goldstein, and
later fought under the managerial
reigns of Tommy O'Loughlin and
even Fritzie Zivic.
In the late thirties he scored wins
over LaSalle, Pimpinella, Ossie Harris,
Soose, Zivic and other good ones
in the east and mid-west. But in 1940
opponents began to run from him.
Welter champ Armstrong became
evasive and Burley couldn't fight
Henry's successor to the title, Zivic.
Although Burley was Fritzie's "boss"
in the ring, actually Zivic was the
"boss" because he had bought Charley's
contract.
"Fritzie did this to keep from
fighting me," Burley said.
Later Burley drew with middleweight
Georgie Abrams and when
Freddie "Red" Cochrane won Zivic's
title, even he ran from the Pittsburgh
blaster. Fights in the 147 and 160
pound class became harder for Burley
to land.
Hard pressed to make a living he
began to fight heavier and taller
opponents. "I fought anyone my
managers could get me." Asked why
boxing commissions approved such
bouts, he said, "Ask the managers
... I Just did the fighting."
Burley confessed he knew why he
was allowed to fight much heavier
men, however.
"1 made the grade to fight bigger
guys by having weights in my trunks
on the scales."
Buriey added, "I was rated the
top welter and middleweight contender
in the world, but I just couldn't
break through. This is why I
took fights with Jimmy Bivins (duration
heavyweight champion, 1942-
45), Ezzard Charles (Joe Louis's successor
as heavyweight champ), solid
middleweights Lloyd Marshall, Hoiman
Williams, Pimpinella, big J. D.
Turner and other hefty guys.
"I scaled 151 '/2 to Turner's 226. I
I
Archie Moore, Fritzie Zivic, Jack Chase,
Bert Lytell, Holman Williams, ivere fast
a few who were beaten by Burley,
dropped him three times and stopped
him in six. Bivins, Charles and
Marshal out-weighed me between 15
and 18 pounds and Pimpinella was
20 pounds heavier than I.
"I trained with some mighty
tough heavies and light-heavies. I
boxed Jersey Joe Walcott, Curtis
Sheppard who was a real puncher,
Harry Bobo. We always had rough
brawls in the gym."
In actual combat Burley says his
toughest pro fights were with Ezzard
Charles and Holman Williams,
but that the best pros he fought
were Charles and Archie Moore.
"All of these guys were real professionals.
Although I floored Archie
he was mighty tough for me. No, I
didn't carry him."
Of his losses to Marshall and to
Charles, he said that the Marshall
fight in San Francisco was a tough
one and real close. He lost two hairline
decisions to Charles at Pittsburgh's
Forbes Field.
"Charles was a great fighter, as
was Marshall. I feel that the judges
gave Ezzard a gift decision in our
second fight . . . I really thought I
beat him."
Burley continued to fight out of
(Continued on page 58)
37

 

BURLEY
(Continued from page 37)
Pittsburgh and proceeded to knock
out "Bulldog" Harris and Zorrita,
soundly whipped Lige Drew and
Williams.
In 1942 he went to the Pacific
Coast and fought around San Diego.
Eastern opponents at his weight
weren't to be had.
In San Diego he knocked out brothers
Shorty and Big Boy Hogue, a
pair of rough and tough light heavyweights.
Burley also posted a win
over Aaron "Tiger" Wade and then
landed some "money" fights in Los
Angeles and Hollywood.
When Burley kayoed Jack Chase
in 10 rounds at Los Angeles for the
state 160 pound title, and then stopped
Chase in six in their rematch
at Hollywood, West Coast fans, too,
were becoming believers.
He fought Moore at Hollywood
and scored his five-knockdown victory.
He kayoed Chase again in their
third fight in San Francisco. Burley
then scored his two wins over state
175 pound champ Oakland Billy
Smith while out-weighed 17 pounds.
In San Francisco he stopped tough
Bay Area middleweight Paulie Peters
in one round and other tough coast
fighters.
Chase, who beat Moore, Eddie
Booker and other great fighters, said
of Burley:
"Charley was an oddity. He did
things 'according to Burley, not
Hoyle.' He dropped his hands, leaned
backward, led with his right hand
. . . anything else he wanted to do.
Remarkably, he got away with it.
Why? Pound-for-pound he punches
hard as Max Baer. Why not as
hard as Louis? Baer and Louis were
different; Baer power, Louis pain.
"Burley was a power puncher and
his punches numbed you. This is why
he kayoed so many bigger guys. Only
type of fighter that bothered him
was the busy, crowding type. But he
would 'get' them, sooner or later. I
crowded him for 12 rounds in San
Francisco. I don't know what happened
in the 13th but that was the
last round for me.
"Reason he wasn't welter champ is
that Fritzie Zivic bought his contract
and put him in moth balls. So be it."
Burley's troubles started to mount
again in 1946. Fights in 147 and 160
pound classes became increasingly
fewer. Burley described his irresponsible
attitude towards boxing after the
war.
"I couldn't get a welter or a middle
weight title shot. I felt I deserved
the chance . . . I wasn't making any
money . . . I became disgusted."
Tony Zale's 160 pound title was
frozen four years because of the war.
Red Cochrane's welter title got the
same treatment.
After the war Zale fought three
times against New York Rocky Graziano,
and Zale eventually lost it to
Marcel Cerdan. Cochrane lost the
welter title to Marty Servo and Servo
gave up the crown for failure to defend
due to a nose injury in his loss
to Graziano.
Meanwhile, Robinson beat Tommy
Bell for Servo's vacated title in 1946.
What treatment was Burley getting
while these fights were taking
place? (Here lie blames "boxing politics.")
"I was being dodged as usual.
They tried to get me Graziano. He
wouldn't fight. The same with Zale,
Cerdan and LaMotta (who won the
title from Cerdan).
"Armstrong, Zivic and Cochrane
wouldn't fight me for the welter
title far back as 1939, 1940, and
1941. Cochrane skipped me in 1946.
Servo did the same and they all know
that Robinson did too. This is 'boxing
politics,'" he said disgustedly.
Burley kept fighting (and waiting)
until 1951 when he had his
last fight. He may have salvaged
some satisfaction in Lima, Peru,
where he knocked out Pillar Bastedis,
the South American light
heavyweight champion.
Sixteen years later, his opinion of
current fighters is:
"Just fair."
Would you encourage your son to
be a fighter?
"Absolutely not."
Do you miss the fight game?
"No."
* * *
Charley Burley is currently employed
by the City Sanitation Department
in Pittsburgh, a position
he's held for almost 20 years
He and his wife of 30 years, Julia,
reside in Pittsburgh, ironically on
Robinson Street. Daughter Angie,
lives in New York, David, 13, lives
with Mom and Pop, and Charley, Jr.,
19, is a business administration student
at Allegheny College in Pittsburgh.
•
58

 

Al, thanks for this great article on Charley Burley. What a shame he never got his shot at a title. As i posted before,my dad asked me to go with him to St Nicks Arena 1942,for a bout. I refused,but what a mistake i made ,for the main event fighter was Charley Burley...
Aside : Georgie Abrams was also a great uncrowned middleweight. Abrams DREW with
Charley Burley, and "lost" a controversial decision to a prime Ray Robinson in 1947.
I also saw Abrams lose a very close decision to Marcel Cerdan in MSG,1946. Abrams would surely been a champion today...Cheers A...

 

Thanks fellas! There are some great write ups in those old mags. I'll see if I can dig anything else out of interest.

 

such a pity Burley did not make the kind of mainstream splash to project him in the way he deserved whilst he was active.

 

that was one hell of an article

 

Anyone have other info on that rematch with Charles? I've heard it described as an easy win for Charles by some on this forum (albeit with no backing evidence and likely simply as a means to support the case they were making), but have never actually heard much on it. Burley seems pretty dead-set on the fight being a robbery. Even if it wasn't, it doesn't sound like the makings of a drubbing to me.

 

Because of their style alone, guys like Burley would give todays champs boxing lessons and then add their talent...

I rate Burley 12 p4p all time. He was one of those guys that got dodged, Moore took a decade at the top to get a shot... if there was only one champ today a lot of guys would still find it hard getting a shot - and having to fight tough opponents every time out - many would fall by the wayside.

 

if there was only one champ today a lot of guys would still find it hard getting a shot - and having to fight tough opponents every time out - many would fall by the wayside.


EXACTLY liechhardt,

thats why you can't compare them to past greats, past greats have already shown themselves against such demands and comp... modern so-called-greats HAVEN'T!!!

 

I've read the reports for it a few times, been a while though.

Burley appeared to be a bit more cautious and stayed almost exclusively defensive and countering so he had some success but I think Charles was beating him to the punch and generally staying in command in a close fight.