Too Much Credit In Defeat

Tommy Farr for lasting the distance against Joe Louis. I think if they had fought against Joe would have done like he did with Pastor, Godoy, Walcott etc. I mean good for him doing what a lot of guys couldn't even sneeze at in that era but he was thoroughly beaten and I don't think that fight demonstrates a real threat to any great heavy weight.

 

Maybe Louis-Conn. It wasn't as one sided as all of that before the stoppage.

 

SRL for Montreal. Duran had that one sewn up after the first ten rounds, and correctly announced this fact to his corner following the tenth.

Norton for Holmes. With competent and unbiased judging, Larry should have had that one sewn up after ten as well, as Mercante expressed live from ringside. The post fight scoring controversy hinged on who deserved to win the final round after the judges had it even after 14. The controversy should have been over how in the hell the judges possibly could have still had Ken in the running entering the championship rounds. It was public knowledge that Larry was hampered by a tear in his left arm, but he dominated Norton with it through the early going anyway, before it began to give out.

Norton for Ali II. All Ken did through the first several rounds was follow, while a dancing Ali also did all of the punching. Muhammad finally closed the show with a strong final round. When it mattered most, Ken always,

This content is protected

lacked that little extra that separates the champions from the also rans.

Norton for Ali III. Most viewers who have actually watched the entirety of this one on youtube for themselves have Ali the winner. Leon Spinks went out and took it from Muhammad. Shavers and Norton failed in this respect, and that's why Leon was able to earn the championship on the field of battle where they did not.

Witherspoon for Holmes. That was Tim's match to win or lose, and he lost it. Watch Leon take it from Ali again, then watch Spoon **** away the close against Larry. Tim didn't deserve to win the title that night. Holmes fought his defenses as though HE was the challenger, making for a great champion.

Cooney for Holmes. Larry could have had Gerry out of there in two rounds, but carried him in part out of excess caution, and partly to pave the way for a lucrative and easy rematch. I think Cooney realized this, and that was a large part of why this defeat was so shattering to him.

Godoy for Louis I. Using a defensive posture like that gets one disqualified in amateur competition, and Arturo should have been docked some rounds for it against Joe. Instead, one of the judges actually voted for him.

Bernard Taylor for his draw with Pedroza. Not a loss strictly speaking, but it easily could have been a disqualification for not trying if not in Taylor's hometown. Joey Archer and Willie Pastrano had their jabs pumping incessantly while they were running. TNT was running without sticking, yet somehow got a draw.

Jimmy Young for Ali. This wasn't the initiatory Jimmy Young of the Foreman fight, who continually got off first with his double jab while retreating. Fights are won by punching. Ali got off first, threw more, and landed more. Watch Ali-Young from beginning to end, count the punches, and assess the entirety of the match round by round. Jimmy tried to steal the win by doing less than Ali did, which is patently absurd, and this time the judges rightly rebuked Jimmy. Young was brilliant against Foreman and Lyle. However, his performance against Ali was a flagrant non effort aided by a horribly out of condition champion. If Jimmy had gotten an immediate rematch with the trim 220 pound Ali of the Dunn fight just three and a half weeks later, nobody would have been asking who the rightful winner was.

Someday, we should construct a round by round marathon thread dissection of Ali-Young, complete with youtube links for each individual round, then have at it, with Jimmy's supporters rationalizing how and why he should have won or lost each successive minute of all 15 rounds in sequence.

Jack Sharkey-Jack Dempsey. The Gob charged out of the gate, and knocked around the Mauler a good deal, but he just couldn't get the former champion out of there. Dempsey's short, sledgehammer bodyshots inside were just beginning to tell on Sharkey with more than half the scheduled distance remaining. Unable to take Dempsey out, and sensing that he himself was beginning to wilt, he tried to salvage a win with an underhanded claim of foul. He whispered to his protesting manager sotto voce, "Let it go. It's all part of the game!" It was too bad for Dempsey that it ended that way. A clean, hard 15 rounds, or late championship round come from behind knockout win, would have been invaluable preparation for the Tunney rematch.

Bugner gets too much credit for his losses to Ali and Frazier. Joe needed Doctor Jekyll to drug his Mister Hyde.

 

If one person says the name Cerdan I'm going to **** flame.

 

I agree with pretty much all of that, Duodenum.

 

Vitali Klitschko against Lennox Lewis. Wow, Vitali is ahead a whopping 4-2 margin on the official cards when the fight is stopped on cuts. Against the oldest, heaviest Lewis who has ever fought and whom Klitschko admits is not in very good shape.

Antonio Tarver against Roy Jones in the first fight. Maybe not now, since Tarver ended up winning the rematch and rubber match. But at the time, Tarver got way too much credit for choking away a possible win against Roy.

Roberto Duran against Marvin Hagler. Well I guess Duran deserves his credit for being the considerably smaller man and being the only successful title defense of Hagler to last the distance. But when people talk about Duran "nearly beating" Hagler...well let's not give Duran too much credit for the judges being drunk. The fight was not that close.

 

Possibly Ray Mancini against Alexis Arguello, and Tommy Hearns against Marvin Hagler.

 

Hopkins vs Calzaghe

 

Tommy hearns against barkley

Lewis against rahman

Other situations where the winner was deemed to have landed a lucky punch. Damn that **** pisses me off.

Duodenum, norton v ali 3. How can you honestly claim most people think norton lost it? It's one of the most notorious decisions in heavyweight history. As an afternote, you aren't a "official decision is all that matters" kinda guy are you?

 

Ricky Hatton

 

Andre Direll vs Carl Froch

 

Ruddock against Tyson, both times. Defeats made Razor reputation, and as a rule, that is not a good thing.

 

That sounds good to me.

 

All right. Before I posted that commentary on this thread back in August last year, I first read all the youtube comments following each of the clips showing Ali-Norton III in sequence. It is indeed a fact that the majority of those viewers who actually watched that footage had Ali winning a close decision, many giving him nine rounds, many awarding him eight rounds to seven for Ken. (Many others were just rehashing old positions without bothering to show their homework.) The margins were indeed comparable to what the judges scored, although I don't know what the official round by round breakdowns were. (At some point, I may go back and read all the additional viewer opinions that have been posted over the last 14 months, although that's a lot of text to scrutinize.)

I actually scored Ali the winner over Berbick 97-93 (however, glad the judges ruled against Muhammad to finally retire him), while I think Leon Spinks clearly deserved a UD over Ali when he took the title. (I agreed with Lou Tabat's 145-140 card for Leon, and wonder to this day what Art Lurie was drinking to score 143-142 for Muhammad.)

Yes, I agree Zarate was flagrantly robbed against Pintor. I do make an effort to see what the judges used as criteria in their scoring to understand their thinking, as long as it's not something as blatantly absurd as Roland Dakin's flagrant jingoism in Minter-Antuofermo I. But the comments of youtube viewers who took the time and effort to actually watch Ali-Norton III from beginning to end seem to make it clear that this was no robbery, but a very closely contested chess match which most of them were saying Muhammad won by a margin of 8-7, 9-6, 8-6-1, etc.

Viewed Escalera-Everett, and have no idea how Eddie Cool (then of "Boxing News") possibly could have had it 10-5 in favor of Escalera as he reportedly did. (I didn't read what Cool wrote, but there's no criteria by which I could score Alfredo the winner.)

No, I'm hardly an "official decision is all that matters" kinda guy, and was delighted when Jesse Burnett, for example, got his deserved late career WBC CW shot against S.T. Gordon after being flagrantly robbed against Leon Spinks.