Top 10 ATG List 168 Super Middleweights (Updated Feb 2020)

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by eltirado, Jan 16, 2020.



  1. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    Good post.
     
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  2. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ludicrous to have Froch and Ottke up there
     
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  3. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    You know that Bailey will put Sven up there based on his stats.
     
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  4. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's not even worth replying to
     
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  5. dogcatcher

    dogcatcher Active Member Full Member

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    1. Roy Jones Jr. - At 168 Roy was operating at peak performance and would wreck Ward
    2. James Toney - Toney takes ward to school
    3. Joe Calzaghe - 70/30 in favor of Joe over Ward
    4. Andre Ward - Loses to prime versions of everyone listed above him
    5. Carl Froch
    6. Nigel Benn - In his prime he was scary for anyone at 168
    7. Chris Eubank
    8. Sven Ottke - Fought mostly bumbs
    9. Steve Collins
    10. Chong-Pal Park
    Rearraged your list a bit as I see it. Everyone has different criteria, but i definitely don't see it the same.
     
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  6. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    A very interesting list.

    Toney rates very highly in terms of ability, but like Roy, he doesn't have a lot of depth. But I'd favour the sharp, switched on versions of him who fought Barkley and Littles, over most from that list.

    Joe vs Ward would have been intriguing. I think saying that Joe would have had a 70% chance of beating Ward is an exaggeration.
     
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  7. bailey

    bailey VIP Member Full Member

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    Which is what often comparing the #1 of a division comes down to.
    For example
    I think D Jacobs is a better MW than many but could see arguments made for several MWs to be rated higher based on stats
    I didnt know anybody had, but I think a debate could be put forward for him
    Based on what?
    Certainly not stats.
    So what else is there when his best win is arguably a faded Kessler.
    If they are stats, how can they be bias? Stats are stats. You can only show bias with opinions which is what you do
    Kessler after beating Froch had to not retire but take a period of inactivity due to an eye problem
    He arguably has 2 of the best SMW wins ever
    Cant see how you can accuse me of that when you said I was using stats and how you commented on me saying Kessler was faded. Kessler was a name arguably the biggest one on Ward and Frochs resumes.
    Think that is what you have done
     
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  8. bailey

    bailey VIP Member Full Member

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    We are talking SMW. I think there are many fans that may rate some LHWs to beat Canelo but think Canelo is a better fighter overall than some of the LHWs they feel may beat him.
    We are talking SMW not overall and at SMW, Collins has arguably a better resume
     
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  9. bailey

    bailey VIP Member Full Member

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    I havent.
    Debate what I wrote rather than try and pass off with a weak get out comment
     
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  10. bailey

    bailey VIP Member Full Member

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    So we go back around in a circle where you are falling into your own comments of name recognition and you using bias opinion over facts.
    No question that Roy was a talented SMW but with this logic so many fighters could be rated the best ever based on a bias opinion of a few fights whilst passing through a weight division. We dont know how Roy would have done at SMW against the other top SMWs of Benn, Eubank and Collins because the fights didnt happen with him being involved

    We are talking best SMW ever. Which is found based on stats, reigns, etc. It cant be debated without you looking bias
    Still have Calzaghe #1 at SMW though #2 with that logic could be debatable imo
    So we go back to what we know and it goes by facts stats and history
     
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  11. bailey

    bailey VIP Member Full Member

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    Debatable.

    No discredit at all. I rate Frochs win over Kessler. I think it is Froch best win and think that version of Kessler would have beaten many good SMWs.
    I think you are not understanding the posts at all or looking for a new angle.
    Kessler we know what he was and when he lost to Froch he was faded yet still pushed Froch hard.
    Now I think that version of Kessler would have beaten Sellier but Collins wasnt in a war with Seillier he won in a dominant performance.
    There is no discredit to Froch for scoring that win. Far from it, but Froch didnt beat a slightly less faded version of Kessler coming off a loss
     
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  12. bailey

    bailey VIP Member Full Member

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    Why are you commenting on me to others. Trying to build a team lol
    I notice how you didnt pass any comment on him though with his mentioning of Froch. Showed how you were looking for a bit of support and tried washing over half of what he wrote lol
     
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  13. bailey

    bailey VIP Member Full Member

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    Do you disagree with Eubank being rated so highly based also on stats and performance though?
     
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  14. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran Full Member

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    No way Froch should be higher than Calzaghe
     
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  15. eltirado

    eltirado Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Taking insight from other posters on Roy Jones (H2H bias for obvious reasons)
    1. Andre Ward. G.O.A.T @168
    2. Joe Calzaghe. Impressive 21 WBO Title defenses reign 1998-2007
    3. Sven Ottke. Impressive 21 IBF Title defenses reign 1998-2004
    4. Carl Froch. Fought & Beat every man he faced faced except Andre Ward
    5. Roy Jones Jr. Dominating 44-0 ATG James Toney
    6. Mikkel Kessler 1-1 Carl Froch
    7. Steve Collins. Iron Chin, bigger heart, defeated Benn & Eubank
    8. Nigel Benn. Big heart, loss and draw with Eubank, hurting G Man
    9. Chris Eubank. 1-0-1 on paper with Benn, older times kept on fighting
    10. James Toney | Chong-PalPark