Top 10 ATG List 168 Super Middleweights (Updated Feb 2020)

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by eltirado, Jan 16, 2020.


  1. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Seillier was still top 10 and had several quality wins. He is likely higher ranked than Kessler in the all time rankings (though had more weaknesses but also were his few stenghts more outstanding) and had more title-defences. Eubanks had even more, like 16, so about four times as many as Kessler when he faced Calzone.
    There rather didn't count Byrds "win" over Klitschko, as he was not only almost finished off in the first 3 rounds but also nearly received a shootout by a one-armed opponent.

    Kessler was very faded against Ward and had after a one year lay-off just the tune-up against Perdomo were his timing was totally off and he looked already bad/ clumpsy (or sluggish). Froch was never that good, he's barely top 20 all time but lost the first 8 rounds against Taylor and was knocked down by him, was far behind vs. Groves and got a home-decision (gift) over Dirrell, just as Adamu.
    And Ward headbutted Kessler narrowly to death, which handicaped whom too, but when he came better into the fight was it suddendly stopped due to cuts (like Fragomeni vs. Kraj). He had just 3 - 4 world class opponents, but no pound for pound rated (maybe except Dawson who had to drop weight where he didn't compete for 6 years).
    Calzaghe has many tomatoecans in his record, like Branko Sobot, Mger Mkertchian, Tucker Pudwill, Kabary Salem (who knocked him down and went over 12 rounds), Peter Manfredo (a natural middleweight at most) or Evans Ashira (got stopped in 2 rounds in Middleweight by gatekeeper Maselino Masoe before) among others.
    He didn't fight a lot of punchers instead like Rudy Markussen, Thomas Tate, Danny Green or Antwun Echols. So his record was padded (had a weak competition like Michalczewsky).
     
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  2. AdamT

    AdamT Member Full Member

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    1. Roy's win against Toney looks better on paper (James was drained), however he did beat an atg fighter easily

    2. Of course he wasn't better than Roy

    3. Peak Roy? Obviously not, but numbers do matter as well

    If numbers didn't matter then I would say Lennox Lewis should rank much higher than Joe Louis

    1. Was Louis best win any better than Lewis wins?
    2. Was Louis better than Lewis?
    3. Would he beat Lennox?
     
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  3. Furey

    Furey EST & REG 2009 Full Member

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    Read my post again you walnut
     
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  4. timeout

    timeout Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I refer you to this great post by

    @Serge

    Read learn and educated yourself.

     
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  5. Badbot

    Badbot Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So he was just a really good amateur?
    FFS, he went life and death woth Omar Sheika(or w/e tgat guy was).
    So many picking Jeff Lacy just shows how criminally underrated Calzaghe was, not how good Lacy was.
    Calzaghe was a HOF level talent, Lacy an average SMW.
     
  6. Pompey Junglist

    Pompey Junglist Member Full Member

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    Loving the contorted logic people are using to try and pretend the Number 1 ain't Calzaghe!
     
  7. Serge

    Serge The Baddest Man on the Planet Staff Member

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    Thanks
     
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  8. Somali Sanil

    Somali Sanil Active Member Full Member

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    And all of it can be backed up, not just an opinion...Good post Bailey

    Did some one say a few pages ago "Wait until Bailey turns up and see's this " lol
     
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  9. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I used to ask that very same thing, but often quite alot.
    Many fighters (not all) fight with a greater sense of belief and confidence when having an 0 and it tends to create a bigger more exciting fight that the fighters rise to when in those fights.

    For example losing an undefeated record - Look at how Toney had no recorded losses in over 40 fights. Loses his first fight and losses the next fight after or Groves how after losing his 0 wasnt the same for a few fights after.

    As for the bigger fights. Look at Fury and Wilder. Many felt Fury was a clear winner but because of the 0, the rematch is deemed as far more exciting and a bigger fight than if Wilder had a loss on his record for the rematch

    I dont disagree that they were good wins. Far from, but knowing the history of the division, it would not make him the #1 at the weight in ATGs
     
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  10. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Why dont you give a straight answer to it.
    I will ask again and you can do just that

    Again
    Someone tell me what top undefeated SMW did ward beat at the weight...???

    Oh so which ones did he beat?
    I think Ward gets some credit due to the Calzaghe insecurity that is with some of his fans

    Ok, so when Ward was active there was undefeated Froch, undefeated Andre Dirrell, undefeated Anthony Dirrell, undefeated Abraham, undefeated Groves, undefeated Bute

    Unfortunately Ward wasnt able to face any of them but Froch due to circumstance was able to face undefeated Groves, undefeated Bute and undefeated Andre Dirrell.

    In which case due to such circumstances, can you tell me who he fought as the away fighter to?

    Yet it is arguably greater than Wards SMW resume and with the greater wins
    Collins at SMW beats undefeated in over 40 fights long reigning SMW champ Eubank who had the best SMW resume then
    beats Eubank again
    beats Benn
    beats Benn again
    beats Seillier
     
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  11. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Why would Eubank have to fight in the states? Did Ward fight in Europe during the Super 6?
    You obviously know little about Eubanks career. Eubank put his title on the line away in Africa, Ireland and Germany.
    The WBO was good enough for a unification between Ray Leonard and Thomas Hearns to be involved in.
    When holding that title, Eubank fought the WBC champ at the weight and the undefeated fighter who had held the IBF title at the weight.
    Look how many world rated fighters Eubank beat. There were several and if you know his career would know that
     
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  12. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Calzaghe did beat Jones and Ward fought Calzaghes old opponents with a faded old opponent of Calzaghes being his best win
     
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  13. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Hard to separate?

    Calzaghe won WBO WBC WBA IBF titles
    Ward won WBA WBC titles

    Calzaghe won 22 SMW title fights
    Ward won 7 SMW title fights

    Calzaghe beat 2 undefeated champions at the weight
    Ward didnt beat any undefeated champions at the weight

    Calzaghe beat prime undefeated Kessler
    Wards best win is a faded version of Kessler

    World rated fighters who were/had been or became SMW champs -
    Calzaghe won 10 fights from the group above
    Ward won 4 fights from the group above (2 that Calzaghe had already beaten)

    Calzaghe defended his title as an away fighter
    Ward didnt defend his title outside of his home country

    Calzaghe won 2 unifications against 2 undefeated fighters
    Ward won 1 unification against a fighter who was 2-1 in his last 3 fights


    Hope that helps a bit
     
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  14. Dangerwood84

    Dangerwood84 Active Member Full Member

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    I am old enough to have seen many of his fights clown. I think my point of view is valid, no need to get bitchy.
     
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  15. bailey

    bailey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're the one name calling.
    As you are old enough as you claim, I'm sure you were watching and knew the division.
    People bring up Eubank who helped mould the belt that was good enough to give T Hearns a slice of history making. Out of Eubanks 18 WBO SMW title fights 14 of those fights were against fighters who were, had been or became top 10 SMWs. One was a unification and another was against the undefeated former IBF SMW champ. In fact 6 of the fighters he faced had been or became world champs
    I also pointed out Eubank put his title on the line away in Africa, Ireland and Germany.

    What do you feel is so valid?
     
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