Top 10 ATG White Heavyweights

I have no problem with debating with you ,your arguments are well considered and courteous,although I might not agree with them in their entirety.
I dont know that Jeffries was a particularly racist man he appears to have employed black sparmates and fought several black men ,before becoming Champ.Jeffries was probably just following the accepted line of the times.The Heavyweight Championship was seen as the pinnacle and for a black man to hold it was unthinkable, the remarks Jeffries made about not fighting black challengers ,once he was champ were echoed by Dempsey decades later,with much less reason for excuse,imo.At the start of the Johnson Jeffries fight it was mutually agreed the men would not shake hands,I have heard reports that they did some time after the fight,Corbett was a racist , like Burns , but I think Jeffries just went with the flow, he appears to have been a stolid unimaginative man,of few words,but he gave financial aid to both Fitz and Sharkey in their twilight years, indeed after Jeffries beloved wife was killed in a road accident Sharkey came to live with Jeffries, so there is much to admire in the man.

Alex Creggains both promoted and refereed the Hart Johnson fight ,and stated before hand his aversion to the "stalling type of fight "that Johnson often employed, so I think Jack's card was marked ,accounts of the scrap give Johnson the better of the early rounds with Hart staging a big finish ,though not enough to overcome Johnson's early lead.Creggains true to his word gave the fight to Hart "on his aggression","the negro was inclined to loaf ".,Slice it anyway you like, apart from a dsq loss to Jeanette, Johnson would not lose again for 10 years.I found your story about your Gran very interesting ,Burns did indeed swear at Johnson all through the fight,"come in and fight you damned hyena " being one of his less offensive phrases.
Now I think we had better put this debate to bed ,dont you?
Thanks for the enjoyment it has given me.

 

Prime Ali was much faster than Holmes. The one that fought Holmes, to say the least, was not.

Old Jeffries probably wasnt as strong as young Jeffries but he may have been. I think that Old Jeffries was stunned at just how strong JOhnson was and he underestimated him on this part. I think young Jeffries would have done the same. Certainly, it would have made a very interesting fight, if Johnson was stronger than Young Jeffries.

I agree with you about the punishment that Jeffries soaked up. And while i am in the minority, i think that the way that an old and beaten champion takes their beating is actually very telling in an ATG sense because when ATG fighters face other ATG fighters, they will eventually find themselves underpowered, outsped, taking punishment etc and often we dont see this in their prime. I think Jeffries showed in this fight (if his early career hadnt shown it already) that he reacted very well. I dont think there is a fighter ever born that wouldnt know they were in a fight, if they faced jeffries. There are reasons from Johnson Jeffries that suggest both fighters have advantages in a prime v prime match. I stand by my comment that is a very close fight that could go either way.

 

Johnson control the fight from round 1, and Jeff was unable to push Johnson around, BUT there are other things Jeff lost in his lay off.
He was by reports a man of speed for his size, and in training videos show some defense in ducking and dodging punchings, neither of which was shown in the fight.

 

I think Ali was the best Heavyweight that ever lived, but I would not be astonished if Holmes and Al met prime for prime and Holmes won,indeed Eddie Futch though Holmes was the better man.A fight between them would have been close imo.

 

Interesting thread.

Tier 2:
Marciano

Tier 4:
Jeffries

Tier 6:
Schmeling

Tier 7:
Dempsey

Tier 9:
Fitzsimmons
Sharkey
W. Klitschko

Tier 0:
Corbett
Baer

Tunney
Willard

 

1. Rocky Marciano
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Jim Jeffries
4. Max Baer
5. Gene Tunney
6. Bob Fitzsimmons
7. Max Schmeling
8. Jim Corbett
9. Tommy Burns
10. Sharkey

 

Nice list,


Burns over Sharkey is a no-no though. Sharkey was not only bigger, but better too.

 

1) William "The Prussian" Sheriff
2) Mike "The Giant" White
3) Mike Schutte
4) Stan Johnson
5) Boone Kirkman
6) Bronco Billy Wright
7) Denny Harrington
8) Al Allich
9) Joe "Tank" Mooney
10) Unknown Winston

This list is fairly canonical. Any who wish to argue it are only testifying to their own ignorance.

 

Unknown Winston was Black! You silly goon. Great list though, I can't believe you left off John Dino Dennis. I am hurt.

 

And Mike White wasn't white but in name! Still he was a funny mother****er and deserves inclusion.

 

So he was known.....

 

Well Mike White was huuuuuuuuuuge last time i saw him he was getting KTFOD by Alex Garcia, i fell into the Garcia hype train even more after that fight. WHite has a win over Douglas and had gone the distance with Moorer.
Why did you mention White? when he is black.
Speaking of journeyman white heavys what happen to WimpY Halstead(charachter right there) or how about ref Randy Neumann.

 

I think the clue's in there somewhere.

 

Would you not have Joe Egan on this list????