Top 10 ATG White Heavyweights

Jackson was older for his fight with Jeffries, but he had not lost in 14 years. The news papers said he was in great shape physically and looking good in sparring.

Since the fight was short and essentially over in round two, Jackson's conditioning was not a factor. The fight report leading up to the match and the match itself has been posted here.

Round one was spirited fighting. In round two Jeffries hurt and floored Jackson twice. In round three it was over as Jackson was down again, and tangled up in the ropes and unable to continue.

 

Any White Heavy, listed above Marciano, who'd faught before Marciano's time. No disrespect Janitor...

Marciano has never been one for myself to rate highly amongst the Louis', Clays', although Jeffries is far from the same mould of Marciano. IMO.

Similarities between the two consist of the ONE component. Beating Older Greats who were well past their primes. Regardless of this comparison, Marciano out weighs Jeffries for the fashion in which he bettered his opponents... The majority of which were far heavier than himself, better skilled opponents, with far better records than the likes Jeffries faced at H/W.

 

Mendoza, I enjoyed the "had not lost in 14 years" I have't lost in 30 myself!
As regards the Warren fight etc I have researched both Warren and Jackson and can't put them together at this time, there is no primary source for the fight and Cyclone Warren was allways making fanciful claims including a Jack Johnson fight. More importantly Jackson could hardly wait out of bed for 25 minutes at this time, never mind box 25 rounds, such was his health.

 

Walls was not that serious a contender. Other than Rex Layne, his long list of knockout victims was over second-tier guys who were way past their best, such as Joe Kahut, Bernie Reynolds, and Verne Escoe. He could be viewed as moving toward top contender status after the Layne fights, but then blew a decision to Tommy Harrison. He did reverse that, but quickly blew another fight to the awful Edgardo Romero. That certainly eliminated him as a top notcher and he did nothing the rest of his career to regain top contender status.

 

"Johnson skirted the best contenders while he was champion in Langford, Jeanette, and McVey. What if Ali skirted Frazier, Foreman, and Norton? Would his legacy suffer? Surely, yet Johnson seems to get a pass. Why is this?"

1. Johnson defeated Langford, Jeannette, and McVey as colored champion before winning recognition as the world champion. He had proven himself better than all of them. That does matter in an historical sense.

2. Ali in fact avoided defending against Foreman who was the #1 contender for much of his second reign.

3. After losing to Griffin in 1901, Johnson would lose only to Hart in 1905, on a foul to Jeannette in 1906, and to Willard in 1915 all the way to 1926. In other words, he lost three fights in 25 years. I don't know the details of the early foul loss to Jeannette, but it was probably just a fluke. On Hart and Willard, I know from reading the SF papers that the Hart fight was very close and controversial. Many thought Johnson deserved the verdict, probably a majority, although that is very hard to judge. The loss to Willard came when Johnson was 37 and in a finish fight. Johnson would have won a decision at a normal distance. So Johnson went 25 years being beaten decisively only by Willard. If you use the Willard fight as the cut-off point, he still went 14 years beaten only once by a disputed decision and once via a foul to a man he beat several times. Frankly, how many champions have this sort of longevity? I think only Louis and Ali and Foreman, with only Louis going as long (14 years) without losing decisively.

 

This is misleading because Jackson had not fought in SIX YEARS!!! Jackson was clearly shot, a no longer top 10 fighter as evidence to his knockout loss to 1-1 jim jedfords in his next fight

 

my list

1. Marciano
2. Jeffries
3. Dempsey
4. Schmeling
5. Tunney
6. Fitzsimmons
7. Corbett
8. Jack Sharkey
9. Baer
10. Johansson

Marciano #1 because he DEFEATED the best opposition and obviously has the best record. I rate Jeff over Dempsey because he fought the best of his time while Dempsey did not face Wills. One argument which might be made against Marciano is that Johnson and Tunney were better than the best Marciano defeated. This might be true, but Jeff lost to Johnson and Dempsey lost to Tunney and neither did quite as well against their other competition as Marciano did against his, and I consider Marciano's comp to be as good, and actually better, than the best Jeff and Dempsey defeated.

I didn't rate the Klitschkos.

Vitali--would rate #1 head to head. I would favor him over everyone on this list. His actual resume, though, might make it difficult to even slip him into the top ten in an historical ranking.

Wlad--I don't rate him as high head to head as Vitali because of his lightbulb jaw and questionable stamina. I think he might get upset by the big punchers such as Marciano, Dempsey, Jeff, and Baer. I would rate him #6 on resume and around #6 head to head.

I think Tunney outboxes Schmeling but it is hard to rate him higher at heavy because of his thin resume.

 

How about Jess Willard? He should at least be above Carnera. or possibly Baer.

 

1. Willard's claim to top ten status rests on his finish fight with Johnson, whom he outlasted in the sun. Johnson was pretty far past it at 37 and still was the better man for more than 20 rounds from all I have read and off the film.

2. Willard has an extremely thin resume. Other than Jack Johnson? His next best wins are newspaper decisions over the ordinary Frank Moran, Carl Morris, and Arthur Pelky. His only other knockout of note was against Floyd Johnson, who was viewed as a comer but quickly faded after this fight. Willard also had some embarressing losses. Not only to a top man like Gunboat Smith, but to Bearcat McMahon and a tko defeat to nobody Joe Cox. He was beaten badly by Dempsey and Firpo. He did show courage, but not much else.

3. The ND fight with promising Luther McCarty seems to have been a very close fight. This was probably Willard's most impressive fight other than the one with Jack Johnson. However, he did not clearly win and McCarty was still only a prospect.

Baer--has a much deeper resume, with ko's of Schmeling, Carnera, Galento, Comiskey, Hankinson, Heeney, Cobb, Griffith, and Foord, and decisions over Farr, Risko, Levinsky, and Schaaf.

Carnera--so controversial because of the fix claims, but did outpoint Maloney, Uzcudun, Levinsky, McCorkindale, Lasky, and Loughran, and ko'd Sharkey, Schaaf, Neusel, and Campolo. Several of these men were old, and Schaaf sick, but still this is a much deeper resume than Willard's.


*I completely forgot about Ingo, but he deserves the final place over Carnera, so I edited my top ten and put him in. Carnera would be #11.

 

Thanks Mendoza, but i was actually thinking about Jackson's career - after he fought Jeffries.

 

Jackson took the Jeffries fight partly because his business failed. After the TKO loss to Jeffries, Jackson 's health went into further decline, and he began to drink. He lost again, and retired from boxing.

 

Jackson health and drinking problems and 6 years inactivity were all in effect before he fought jeffries. He was Shot.

 

I really think you are on a par with Mendoza ,where Jeffries is concerned, talk about blind bias!

Jackson won a fight against Godfrey ,billed by the promoters as for the Coloured Championship.Godfrey had won this by beating McHenry Johnson,,whose record with gloves[he was a bareknuckle fighter], was 1-3-9.Godfrey was dsqd in 4rds for fouling Johnson[no details], but the decision was reversed.,they had previously fought to a draw in Johnson's debut fight.Godfrey in 18 fights was kod by ,Maher,drew with Butler,kod and dec's by Kilrain,kod by Choynsky ,and drew with O Donell, his best win was over Denver Ed Smith ,who in avoiding a punch had his head collide with a stone wall which was next to the ring ,he was out on his feet and Godfrey had only to land one punch and the fight was stopped.So much for Godfrey who was only a LH anyway.Jackson beats Godfrey, for this "title", NEVER defends it, in 10 YEARS, the last 6 of which he has NO FIGHTS AT ALL, yet you confidently state he was the Coloured Champion,and recognized as the best coloured fighter in the world.On the basis of what? Beating a man 10 years before?
Jackson in his prime beat who? Slavin,Maher?
One of the three most successful boxers in the history of the Marquess Of Queensbury Rules? .Name a great fighter Jackson beat?
Name a great fighter in his prime that Jeffries beat?
Face the facts .Jackson was a dying man when he fought Jeffries ,he had TB ,and was a hopeless alcoholic[ even while he was still in England].

Jack Johnson beat Bob Fitz, but in his autobiography he disclaims any credit for it because he knew Fitz was a relic of what he had been, and Fitz had been ACTIVE, DID NOT HAVE TB ,and was NOT an ALCOHOLIC.
Yet you think Jeffries win over the shell of Jackson is somehow note worthy? You and Mendoza must get along fine,I bet you beleive the story about the Moose being carried on Jeffries back.

Did you know that if Jeffries had fought Johnson at the original location San Francisco ,he would have won, according to Gun Boat Smith who was Johnson's sparring partner, the fight was BAGGED.The Governor of California ,a man named Hughes put the block on the fight. Bob Armstrong who trained Johnson for the fight stated that when the fight was moved to Reno ."all bets were off" .Smith stated that Johnson drove out to Jeffries place the night before the fight and told him" Now Listen Mr Jeffries,Wer'e not in California.Everybody for themselves.The best man wins".Smith stated."Jeffries didnt think he could win on the level.He thought it was all fixed.Well when that big N****R, told him that ,he didnt sleep all night .Johnson knocked him out in the 15th round. he could have knocked him out in the first round if he wanted to".

 

James J Corbett was not in his prime when he fought Jeffries. I talked to Boxing Historian Kevin Smith about this a while back. Corbetts prime was 1892 vs Peter Jackson. In fact when Jeffries fought Corbett, Corbett had not recorded a win over a man above 160lb in the past SIX years. He was also coming off a 2 year layoff at age 33 against Jeff. Him putting up a great fight against Jeff shows you jeffs limitations more than anything else. What good win of a man above 170lb did corbett record around the time he fought Jeff that shows he was near his prime?