Top 10 by Decade - Divisional Ranking Experiment

I will be interesting in how many dominate two different divisions in either one decade or in two different decades.

I can't think off the top of my head of anyone who dominated two divisions in one decade.

Sugar Ray Robinson will, I think, end up the top welterweight of the 1940's and the top middleweight of the 1950's.

This system over-rewards consistent guys who fail against the top men--think Savold, Baker, Machen, and Folley.

It underrates guys with short but outstanding runs (Layne) or guys who are erratic but dangerous for almost anyone (Satterfield). Satterfield might also be harmed by bouncing between the ratings of two separate divisions. Brings up the issue of doings an evaluation in which ratings in all divisions are totaled up for a score.

 

Anthony "The Man" Mundine ranked 6th Greatest Supermiddleweight to ever enter the ring!

 

on the light-heavyweights,

It is interesting that Harold Johnson really has a more impressive heavyweight resume than at light-heavyweight. His wins over Bivins and Charles came years after they left the light-heavyweights. Discounting those two, his only wins over light-heavies who made your lists are a decision over Moore (admittedly impressive) with four losses to Moore, and a split decision over Cotton. What most strikes me is the few top light-heavyweights Johnson fought.

and elaborating on Cotton being overrated--He came out of the fifties not ranked and suffering losses to Sonny Ray, Sixto Rodriguez, and Hank Casey (all guys Mina would defeat). He had a good run in 1960 and 1961 including beating Mike Holt and Johnny Halifihi which got him a shot a Johnson, which he lost by split decision. He was probably fairly ranked #4 in 1961 (with Mina 8th)

In 1962 Cotton won 4 of 5, but lost to Mina. He was rated #3 that year, with Mina #1.

In 1963 Cotton won 5 of 6, losing to Mina, beating three journeymen, and also Chic Calderwood and Henry Hank. This record moved him up to the #1 rating. (Mina won all four of his fights that year, including one over Cotton and one over Bob Foster. He was dropped to #4 in The Ring ratings)

In 1964 Cotton lost 3 of 4, splitting decisions with Johnny Persol, and losing twice to Wayne Thornton. (Mina had a poor year also, going 2-1-1, with a draw with Allan Thomas and a loss to Gregorio Peralta.) Cotton ended the year ranked #3. Mina was #4. Peralta who lost a championship fight to Pastrano, but beat Thornton and Mina, was ranked #1.

In 1965 Cotton went 1-3-1, including a KO defeat. This dropped him to #6. *note that in 1964 and 1965 Cotton went 2-6-1 but still held the #6 ranking (in fairness, Mina got to #2, but Peralta was dropped to #4. Thornton who lost two fights each to Peralta and Bobo Olson got to be the #1 contender by beating, you guessed it, Cotton)

in 1966 Cotton beat a couple of journeyman and then got a second shot at the title, this time against Jose Torres. After losing that one, he also lost to Roger Rouse and beat another journeyman. So he went 3 of 5, and ended the year ranked #3. Mina had to retire due to an eye injury. Peralta was dropped to #8.

In 1967 Cotton won 3 of 4 but was KO'd by Foster. He finished the year and his career ranked #6. In fairness, Peralta was rated #2 that year, and the next, but this did not earn him a second shot at the title.

Bottom line for me--how Cotton stayed at the top of the ratings despite losing fight after fight is possibly the biggest head-scratcher of the entire Ring ratings over the years.

Cotton went 56-23-2 for his career. Mina went 52-3-3. Mina beat Cotton twice. Mina also beat all kinds of guys who beat Cotton, as well as top men like Peralta, but somehow couldn't very often edge past Cotton in the ratings.

 

One thing jumped out on me after seeing the middleweight board and I think merits a comment.

Joey Maxim stands out in beating high-ranking men on your boards.

Joey defeated the two men tied at #3 at heavy in the 1940's (Walcott & Bivins)
Joey defeated the #1 & #2 men at light-heavy in the 1940's (Lesnevich & Mills)
Joey defeated the #3 heavyweight of the 1950's (Patterson) & the #2 heavy of the 1960's (Patterson)
Joey defeated the #1 middleweight of the 1950's (Robinson)
and anticipating, I think Joey holds a win of the #1 welter of the 1940's (Robinson)

Now, some of these men were smaller (Robinson & Patterson), green, (Patterson), or perhaps overrated (Lesnevich & Mills, and to a degree Patterson)

but this is impressively beating the men at or near the top of your boards all the way from welter to heavy and from the 1940's to the 1960's.

 

But AJ and Wilder have more respected world titles and Parker has the WBO title does Rummy actually rank the IBO or whatever **** Povetkin has?

 

Thanks again for all your hard work putting his up. I think middleweight was (as you alluded to) the most talented division over the years, and so perhaps the most interesting.

comments

1930's--looking at the match-ups that were made, Europe was loaded with top middles in the 1930's, so Thil dominating over there makes his #1 rating understandable for me. Teddy Yarosz coming up the #1 American warms my evil little heart, and I'll have a separate post on Teddy later.

1940's
1--hard to say exactly how Zale would have done w/o WWII. He would certainly still have been pretty strong.
2--the murderer's row group doesn't really stand out that much. It is LaMotta who impresses, with wins over Cerdan, Williams, Lytell, and Basora, as well as Robinson.
3--although he might well have been hurt on this board by WWII, Cerdan did well enough to show his rep is mainly deserved, with wins over Zale, Williams, and Abrams.
4--the big surprise for me was Belloise rating so high.

1950's
1--Giardello seems an overrated consistent guy in this decade. Joey fought a lot of top men, but I think he had a losing record against your board in this decade, beating Mims, but losing to Castellani and Webb. His win over an aging Robinson came in 1963.
2--Fullmer is the most impressive against the board other than Robinson, with wins over Robinson, Castellani, Humez, Webb, and Basilio.
3--Tiger Jones was certainly an in and outer, but he had wins over your top two, Robinson & Giardello. He also beat Gavilan, who might lead your welters in this decade. Jones stands out as a guy with a so-so record but a lot of big wins.
4--Terry Downes also has wins over your top two, but in the 1960's.

1960's

1--Giardello has wins over the top middles of the 1950's and 1960's, Robinson and Tiger, but otherwise really didn't beat that many top men, and lost a lot. Just noting. And Robinson was really getting up there. So Joey's great performance on this board again points to longevity trumping beating the best. But he did beat Tiger twice.
2--Joey Archer also has wins over Robinson (at literally the end) and Tiger, and so beat the top men of the 1950's and 1960's, impressive I think for a mere contender.
3--Griffith did the best against the board, with wins over Tiger, Benvenuti, Archer, and Rodriguez.
4--Benvenuti also impresses with wins over Griffith, Rodriguez, Mazzinghi, and Folledo. The Euro middles show well from the 1930's through the 1960's and were quite competitive with the best.

1970's
1--Monzon is really outstanding, with wins over Valdez, Briscoe, Griffith, Mundine, and Tonna, and retiring undefeated.

1980's
1--Hagler stands out, but perhaps not to the degree Monzon did in the earlier decade.

I think Monzon and Hagler deserve to rate above Robinson at middleweight.

 

on Teddy Yarosz

Happy to see him rated so high by your system. I think Teddy might be the all time underrated fighter. He beat 10 world champions (2 welters, 6 middles, and 2 light-heavies), and beat champions from every decade from the 1920's (Pete Latzo) to the 1960's (Archie Moore).

How he does against your boards at light-heavy is mind-boggling, I think.

Teddy beat the #3 light-heavy of the 1930's (Al Gainer)
Teddy beat the #4 light-heavy of the 1940's (Lloyd Marshall)
Teddy beat the #10 light-heavy of the 1940's (Nate Bolden)
Teddy beat the #3 light-heavy of the 1940's, the #1 light-heavy of the 1950's, and the #10 light-heavy of the 1960's (Archie Moore)
Teddy also beat Billy Conn (a champion but never rated at light-heavy, but rated #8 at heavy in the 1940's)

So Yarosz defeated someone who made your boards at light-heavy all the way from the 1930's to the 1960's.

*just an aside, in an HBO poll of the Boxing Writers of America done about 1980, the top two light-heavies were Archie Moore and Billy Conn, both men Yarosz defeated.

 

i know its not a popularity contest, but you have done so much work, i would loved to see it taken as far as possible. I dont see a prolem with a decade with lots of zeros. Much like the fighters with careers spanning both decades or who are number one in November but drop down in December, it is just a matter of luck.

BAck to the middleweights, I just have to say, I had always thought that Robinson was slightly overated at middleweight. This certainly tends to suggest otherwise.