Top 10 fighters Foreman beat ?

The next logical question is do you see Cockle beating, Valdez, Baker or Satterfield or being more consisten than them against the opposition they were fighting at the time?

If you do not think he would then you could logicaly conclude that he was able to exploit Archie Moores rampage in the heavyweight division to get up to the No2 spot.

 

Good post. :good

Cockell was nothing special but a deserving contender nonetheless.
You make a good point about Brennan.

I think it's the fact that all of Marciano's title defenses were against hall of famers (Walcott 2x, Charles 2x, Moore) except for Cockell, makes him being thought of as a soft touch. Which he was compared to the other names, but he was still the #2 contender with legit wins. Not a Leroy Jones or a Lucian Rodriguez with 10 fights.

 

True. But Foreman got some decsions he did not deserve. The Stewart and Saveresse fights come to mind.

 

Baker dropped in the ratings behind Cockell, and in fact out of the ratings completely, because of losses to Gilliam, Satterfield, and Henry. The loss to Moore came later.

Satterfield's loss to Moore in 1949 probably did not impact his being rated behind Cockell. He fell in the ratings because of eight losses in the fifties.

Valdes was rated ahead of Cockell in spite of his loss to Moore.

I don't see that Moore's success actually effected Cockell's rating that much. Cockell climbed in the ratings because he won more consistently than the other contenders except for Moore.

As to how Cockell would have done against the other contenders or thier opposition, that is asking for quite a bit of speculation. I think Cockell would be even or better against the very inconsistent Satterfield, who badly defeated Valdes and Baker. I would favor Baker, but would expect a close, tactical fight. Valdes did defeat Cockell, who was much fatter than usual and may have been looking past the fight toward his retirement. Cockell would never win another fight.
As to the opposition, I would guess about the same, but I don't think Satterfield, at least, would be likely to match Cockell's 20-2 record after 1950. He was just too in and out.

 

You seem to have dismised a large part of my thesis but I retain doubts.

For example looking at the rankings for that year and the previous one Cockle seems to have climbed to number two without actualy engaging other ranked contenders while those he is rated ahead of seem to have fallen behind him in large part due to losses to other ranked contenders.

1954 Rocky Marciano, Champion

1. Nino Valdes
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Dan Bucceroni
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5. Earl Walls
6. Don Cockell
7. Clarence Henry
8. Tommy Harrison
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1955 Rocky Marciano, Champion

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2. Don Cockell
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4. Bob Baker
5. Earl Walls
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10. Jimmy Slade

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My impresion is a higher level of interaction among the other top contenders which might have worked to his advantage.

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Foreman got in the best shape and lowest weight of his comeback for that fight and if I remember correctly gave Big George fits, the 5"7 fat Quawi hit George a lot and held up well before he tired

 

1952 Ratings-Ratings of Jan 1, 1953
Champion--Rocky Marciano
1. Jersey Joe Walcott
2. Rex Layne
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Bob Dunlop
5. Clarence Henry
6. Johnny Williams*
7. Roland LaStarza*
8. Heinz Neuhaus
9. Karol Sys
10. Jimmy Bivins
Cockell defeated the #6 man, Williams, as well as LaStarza.

Ring ratings for the May, 1952 Issue of Ring--ratings for period ending
March 18, 1952:
Champion--Jersey Joe Walcott
1. Ezzard Charles
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Roland LaStarza*
4. Clarence Henry
5. Johnny Williams*
6. Heinz Neuhaus
7. Coley Wallace
8. Bob Dunlop
9. Cesar Brion
10. Bob Baker
Cockell defeated the #3 and #5 contenders

Ring ratings for the August 1952 issue of the Ring-for period ending
June 18, 1952
Champion--Jersey Joe Walcott
1. Rocky Marciano
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Roland LaStarza*
4. Coley Wallace
5. Clarence Henry
6. Harry Matthews*
7. Johnny Williams*
8. Bob Dunlop
9. Cesar Brion
10. Jimmy Bivins
Cockell defeated the #3, #6, & #7 rated fighters.

Ring ratings for the October 1953 issue for the period ending August 18, 1953
Champion--Rocky Marciano
1. Roland LaStarza*
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Dan Bucceroni
4. Nino Valdes
5. Tommy Harrison
6. Bob Satterfield
7. Heinz Neuhaus
8. Don Cockell
9. Earl Walls
10. Harry Matthews*
Cockell defeated the #1 and #10 contenders

I will comment on a separate post.

 

On closer inspection his ranking apears to be justified.

 

By using only the 1953 and 1954 ratings, you excluded Johnny Williams,
who was #6 in the 1952 ratings, and had reached as high as #5.
Harry Matthews was generally and perhaps stubbornly rated in the lightheavy class by the Ring even after he outgrew the division (If he could have made the lightheavy limit after the Marciano fight, I think he would have). Matthews in 1952 was rated as highly as #6 in the heavy ranks by Ring, and as high as #2 by the NBA on the eve of his bout with Marciano. He was the Ring's #8 ranked heavyweight when he fought Cockell the first time. Of course, he was a top three lightheavy from 1950 to 1952, ranked #1 contender over Moore and Johnson in 1951 and selected by the staff of the Ring as the best p4p fighter in the world for 1951, replacing Sugar Ray Robinson.

Williams and Matthews were still ranked heavyweights when Cockell defeated them in 1953, LaStarza when Cockell defeated him in 1954.

Cockell had also defeated Nick Barone, ranked #5 at lightheavy in 1950 and who fought Charles for the heavyweight title, and Freddie Beshore, a fringe contender in 1950 who Cockell defeated in 1951. There were also the old men, Farr and Marshall.

Charles had clearly beaten more good men but he was always rated ahead of Cockell until his second loss to Marciano.

Valdes was rated ahead of Cockell, so I don't see the issue with him.

Baker dropped completely out of the ratings in 1953, Satterfield in 1954.

Cockell defeated six men, heavies LaStarza, Williams, Farr and Matthews, as well as lightheavies Marshall and Barone (plus Matthews if you want to count him here) who were ranked in the top five of their division at one time or another. Farr and Marshall were slipping, of course.

 

Okay. Sorry, but I posted my comments before I read this.

 

Tim Witherspoon's top 10:

1. greg page
2. frank bruno
3. bonecrusher smith
4. tony tubbs
5. carl williams
6. jorge luis gonzales
7. alfred cole
8. james tillis
9. jose ribalta
10. renaldo snipes

Mike Tyson's top 10

1. holmes
2. spinks
3. ruddock
4. tucker
5. berbick
6. tubbs
7. bonecrusher
8. pinklon
9. bruno
10. seldon

Larry Holmes top 10

1. Ali
2. Norton
3. Witherspoon
4. Weaver
5. Berbick
6. Shavers
7. Cooney
8. Mercer
9. Bonecrusher
10. leon spinks or carl williams