I know this thread has been done ad nauseum, and I apologize if you are peeved to see redundant topics come up, but it really is tedious combing through 500 pages to find this thread so I just hope you can empathize with my situation:???: I'm looking for honest, pithy but enlightening answers as to who you conside to be the top 10 h2h fighters in boxing history as well as p4p, what factors into you decision and their ranking(if you indeed rank them) and what makes them that special. Thanks.
Its a hard to narrow it down to just 10 but I consider these 10 the hardest to beat Hd 2 Hd at their best. 01.Sugar Ray Robinson 02.Sugar Ray Leonard 03.Muhammad Ali 04.Pernell Whitaker 05.Sam Langford 06.Henry Armstrong 07.Roberto Duran 08.Marvellous Marvin Hagler 09.Ezzard Charles 10.Ike Williams Just missing out, Tony Canzoneri, Joe Louis,
1) Sugar Ray Robinson 2) Muhammad Ali 3) Sugar Ray Leonard 4) Henry Armstrong 5) Pernell Whitaker 6) Roy Jones Jr 7) Roberto Duran 8) Manny Pacquiao 9) Salvador Sanchez 10) Marvin Hagler
H2H - based purely on level of ability reached #1 Calzaghe - volume of punches, overcomes any fighter in history #2 Roy Jones Jr - speed overcomes everyone apart from Calzaghe #3 Tszyu - the only fighter able to beat Calzaghe (if he were bigger) #4 Whitaker #5 Hearns #6 Prime Joan Guzman (the unbeatable beast at lighter weights) #7 Lennox Lewis (with HW P4P disadvantage cancelling co-efficient applied) #8 Leonard, Sugar Ray #9 Mayweather #10 Duran Greatest - based on casual myth #1 Ali #2 Sugar Ray Robinson #3 Tyson #4 Marciano #5 Duran #6 Pep #7 Dempsey #8 Sugar Ray Leonard #9 Joe Louis #10 Hagler Greatest based on enthusiast myth #1 Robinson #2 Armstrong #3 Langford #4 Greb #5 Pep #6 Charles #7 Fitzimmons #8 Duran #9 Ali #10 Smith Walker Great based on merit #1 Robinson #2 Roy Jones #3 Calzaghe #4 Whitaker #5 Duran #6 Hearns #7 Lewis #8 Duran #9 Leonard #10 Pacquaio
The enthusiast myth list is great. Robinson at #1 and Smith Walker #10. People just don't appreciate the real Sugar Ray anymore.
How exactly are you differentiating those terms? A true top 10 "head to head" list would be almost all heavyweights. You realize that, yes? Head to head just means who would win in a one-on-one match, straight up. "Pound for pound" best means best proportionate to weight, so a smaller and more skilled boxer who would logically lose h2h to a much larger but less skilled one can get recognition. So, head to head Ali obviously smashes Robinson. While Robinson is greater p4p. Some people visualize the concept by proposing the hypothetical of them being the same size but otherwise retaining all their qualities, although this is not really necessary. You can alternately judge how dominant one is against those who actually are their own size and the quality of those opponents, and then compare with the fighter of a different weight and their opponents. In the end it's all very subjective. It sounds like what you're looking for is really just one list, a "top ten p4p h2h" list. Once you cease to qualify it as being in pound-for-pound terms, size very much matters. Otherwise there really is no point distinguishing the two terms, unless you are defining p4p best (as some do) as a combination of h2h (really h2h p4p) ability and resume. In which case one list is essentially just the other list minus resume consideration.
P4P : 1) Sam Langford 2) Charley Burley 3) Henry Armstrong 4) Barney Ross 5) James Toney 6) Young Peter Jackson 7) Muhammad Qawi 8) Roberto Duran 9) Jorge Fernando Castro 10) Chris Byrd 11) Carmen Basilio 12) Mysterious Billy Smith 13) Orlin Norris dominance : 1) SRR 2) Salvador Sanchez 3) Eder Jofre 4) Ricardo Lopez 5) Rocky Marciano 6) Carlos Monzon 7) Mike Tyson 8) George Foreman 9) Marvin Hagler 10) Donald Curry
without doing a top 10, P4P-H2H robinson, charles, jones, ali, & leonard would all be somewhere on my list and overall P4P langford would be my #1 choice. calzaghe falls just outside my top 250
Pep is used to be at 5, then dropped to 7, now he isnt on it. He's just outside it with Louis and Hearns. There is no film of Charles in which he looks spectacular, for me to rate him
atsch Ill give it a try here for HTH greatest,, Some guys would be very tough over a couple divisions. I think RJ at Mw or SM, Duran at Lw and at WW(montreal,Palomino),Armstrong fw/Lw but ill just stick with one weight class to make it easier 1.Ray Robinson WW 2.Roberto Duran Lw 3.Roy Jones Mw 4.Ezzard Charles LH 5.Ray Leonard WW 6.Evander Holyfield Cr 7.Michael Spinks Lh 8.Thomas Hearns JM 9.Henry Armstrong Fw 10.Salvador Sanchez Fw 11.Charley Burley Jm 13.Muhamad Ali Pre draft 14.Julio C Chavez Lw 15.Pernell Whittaker Lw 16.Ricardo Lopez Straw 17.Floyd Mayweather JL 18.Oscar Delahoya Jw 19.Ruben Olivares Bw 20.Mark Johnson Fly Theres so many i wanted to put in Pep,Sadler should probably be here but i didnt want to put oo many Fw in here. I probably forgot some as i did this off the top of my head, im sure ill change my mind on a few of these tomorrow... I was also tempted to rank Louis,Marciano in here as Cw if i did they would certainly make the cut...I know some of these guys had losses or close fights with non greats at these weight classes, but keep in mind im talking on their best days. Gomez at JF,Arguello at JW,Monzon,Hagler,Napoles at Jw(if he fought there) were also fighters i considered. 18.Manny Pacquiao Jw
