TOP 10 HEAVYWEIGHTS LIST - An in depth look at the real top 10.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Vegan Beast, Apr 14, 2021.


  1. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    TL;DR -

    I also am not including Povetkin in this because he's likely to retire and his recent two performances pretty much guarantee he's finished and will not provide any more of a threat in the top 10.

    - Rank 3-9 is very debatable.
    - If you're going to cry about my decisions - If it's clear you have not read my explanations below, you'll be ignored completely.

    1. Joshua
    2. Fury
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    3. Whyte
    4. Hunter
    5. Wilder
    6. Usyk
    7. Ruiz
    8. Parker
    9. Luis Ortiz
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    10. Joe Joyce.

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    1. Joshua - I could easily make Fury/Joshua equal, but If I HAD to choose, I'd choose Joshua. Why?

    - He acquired these 3/4 belts while facing many top 10 level quality opponents. He has shown consistent improvement and has also shown the ability to bounce back after a loss and has shown versatility in his style and a variety of skills and punches.
    - In regards to the "age" factor of his opponents - (Remember Fury's best victory was against Wlad, 39).
    - A lesser Joshua beat 41 year old Wlad. 41 year old wlad would be #3 now.
    - He also beat a 38 year old Povetkin who was #3 at the time, and in 2018 he was a far quicker/fitter fighter. 2018 Povetkin would be #3 right now, and would be 50/50 at least to beat anyone in top 10 besides Fury/Joshua.
    - AJ also well outboxed a very skillful fighter in Parker who was very close to KOing Whyte. Proving he can win in a variety of different ways, and has an arsenal of skills.

    In summary - I just see more consistency in Joshua in fighting regularly against top level opponents, improvement and performance. His best performances may not look as sexy as Fury's but consistency is key.

    2. Fury -

    - I'd say Fury probably has the most impressive win out of any fighter with his utter dominance of Wladmir.
    - He also seems to be the most gifted fighter based on his performances.
    - He also well beat Wilder twice.
    - But how good Wilder is, in my opinion, is yet to be determined, as his calibre of opponents have been questionable besides Fury. I'd still consider Wilder top 10, but not proven better than the other top 10's.
    - I do not think his record shows enough consistency for him to be ranked above Joshua. Consistency is what Fury has been lacking throughout his career, and before Wladmir, he never really fought anyone near world class quality. I could also point out his near TKO defeat vs Wallin, as lesser cuts have lead to fight stoppages many times, but this isn't evidence of Fury's quality, but more him being switched off in fights he doesn't consider as important.
    - His best wins are Wladmir, Wilder and Wilder. 3 top 10 quality wins, but how verified you think Wilder is up to you to decide, but his best win was against Ortiz who has never beaten any top 10 calibre opponents.

    Summary - At his best he looks the most impressive, but his record is questionable when compared to Joshua's, and hasn't achieved enough consistency to be labelled number 1 and also only has 1/4 belts.

    Fury's lineal champion claim doesn't really mean much if he hasn't held the other belts in 6 years and has never defended any of the 4 belts.

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    3. Dillian Whyte -

    - Inconsistent at times, but I was impressed with his performances vs Rivas who he clearly dominated with his jab, and his win vs Parker, and his first performance against Povetkin, even though he lost due to an insane punch.
    - He's shown a considerable level of improvement and has shown he can fight in different styles. When he wants to, he can fight behind the jab and be calculated, or he can bully fighters.
    - I am putting him here because he has been more active recently than Wilder, and against good opposition also, and I think he's beaten fighters who either more proven or just as proven as his best win which was Ortiz. Ortiz is no more proven than Parker, and maybe even Rivas.
    - I also think he's got a more solid record over the last 3 years fighting top quality opponents than most others on here.

    4. Michael Hunter

    - Basically, despite the official draw, he beat Povetkin from 2019 who I still think was a lot fresher than the 2020 version of Povetkin who beat Whyte.
    - Most people had him winning 7-5 or 8-4. A younger povetkin would have been different, but I was still impressed with his boxing skills, and his ability to deal with a heavyweight threat. He took some good shots from Povetkin and didn't get KO'd or look outclassed.
    - I think based on that performance against a proven Top 10 heavyweight, he deserves this, as it's more impressive than any recent victory than anyone elses below, especially seeing it was his first real heavyweight test.
    - His last great win was late 2019, but that's the same as many others in this list, I think his is the most impressive.

    5. Deontay Wilder.

    - Had a good win vs Ortiz in 2019 who is considered top 10, and a good win against him previously.
    - I'm going largely based of the obvious threat he poses and how he forces the absolute best out of Fury. - I'm more than willing to be open to the possibility that he gets absolutely exposed against someone like Ruiz or Whyte, but you can't argue with him knocking down Fury twice first time around. It may not have been 100% Fury, but the Fury that he fought would still probably be #2/#3.
    - He also did hold a belt for a while, and that has to count for something. Hasn't been active enough to keep his #3 spot.

    6. Oleksander Usyk.

    - Still has to prove himself, however despite not impressing as much as we thought vs Chisora, he still outclassed him in the end winning 9-3 after weathering the storm. His skills are unquestionable, and he's been at least somewhat active in the last 6-7 months to place him above some of the others.

    - Hasn't done enough to justify being above anyone else above though. However, If you beat Chisora significantly it's a decent enough sign you're of good quality, but not enough to justify higher than this position now. I'm being generous to Usyk based on his obvious abilities and recent activity levels.

    7. Andy Ruiz

    - Hasn't been active since 2019, but hasn't lost either. What you think his loss to AJ in 2019 says about him is up to you, I'd lean more towards it him not being in shape to fight and not caring, not necessarily lacking ability.
    - His scalp of being the only one to beat AJ has to put him up here though. His inactivity has lost him a higher position, but he's shown clear skills and ability, and was unlucky to lose against Parker previously.
    - I still think he'd lose vs AJ 7 or 8/10, but I think if he's in shape he'd threaten anyone in the division.

    8. Joseph Parker

    - Hasn't shown up to contend for a while, but at least he's been keeping himself in shape and fighting while figuring out style adjustments, and employing a new trainer. Also only 29.
    - He has an impressive victory vs Ruiz. Even if you think he was a bit lucky with it, he at least went toe to toe with him, proving a similar level.
    - On another night he would have beaten Whyte, and almost did late on and had Whyte hanging on for his life. A rematch between him and Whyte is in order.
    - Hasn't done enough recently to justify being higher, but I think his record is strong enough to be here at least. He's shown he is around Whyte/Ruiz quality at his best.
    - He was also a champion at one point.

    9. Luis Ortiz

    - I'm putting him here because of his performances vs Wilder really. I think many would fall quicker to Wilder, including people on this list potentially, and he almost beat him the first time. His performance vs Wilder in dec 2019 showed that he has the fitness level of someone 5-8 years younger, and has obvious skill.
    - Based on his performances vs Wilder and his obvious maintenance of his fitness level and skills, I'm gonna put him here. I still want to see this beast against someone like Chisora or even Parker.
    - Since his record isn't against many top level opponents, and since he hasn't fought anyone besides a joke of a fighter since losing to Wilder, I can't justify him being any higher.

    10. Joe Joyce

    - Wins over Dubois and Jennings I suppose count for something, but when I look at the other fights around in top 20, I don't see any of them with a more impressive recent record.
    - He also has considerable experience, a gold medal and a title eliminator coming up.
    - If Povetkin was still viable, I'd not have him here, but because no on else is really up there at the moment, I'll give it to Joyce.

    If you look at anyone else below the top 9, you'll see the fighters down there don't have any recent wins against anyone really of note to value putting them up here.
     
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  2. DramaShow

    DramaShow 19 banned Full Member

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    I stopped reading when I saw Whyte at 3 and Hunter at 4
     
  3. xnico

    xnico New Member banned Full Member

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    I stopped reading when I saw Joshua at 1
     
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  4. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

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    For western fans he had " beat " old Povetkin. In forums. Povetkin beat him for Povetkin's fans. Vice versa.

    You also rank Usyk so highly, I think he might be #10 cos Chisora is I think #11 in boxrec now. He had beat Chisora.

    Ruiz is 1-1 vs champ in A.J ( Stoppage win vs loss on points ) while Whye is 0-1 vs the same champ in A.J via stoppage loss.
    Wilder is on paper vs Fury 0-1-1 and this too makes his position stronger than Whyte's because he at least on paper get a draw vs guy who is current champ in Fury.

    Ortiz is of course not proven vs well known in europe fighters.
    Parker at least had been tested vs A.J and Andy Ruiz Jr : A.J is current champ with multiple belts, Andy Ruiz Jr is former champ who had de facto multiple belts won via stoppage.
    Parker for me looks unproven enough but his resume is not bad. It is above Usyk today resume wise.
     
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  5. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    Wilder is not 0-1-1 vs Fury, I consider Fury 2-0 up including 95% of people who watched the fight.

    You also have to take into consideration recent activity. You cannot just look at who they've beat but also how long ago it was.

    Wilder has not won anything since 2019 and has been inactive for well over a year. Ruiz has not won anything for nearly TWO YEARS.

    Parker has not faced anyone of top 10 quality for nearly 3 years!

    I rank Usyk 6th because his skill is evident and he's kept himself active at least. It may be only against Chisora but it's at least something. He well beat Chisora in the end.

    Inactivity of fighters HAS to rank them down eventually.
     
  6. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    "I stopped reading at..."

    I see you guys, so basically not really willing to produce an intelligent argument, just wanting your opinions validated. I see.
     
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  7. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Of course Usyk's skills definitely had been in depth proven in high level international scene in all levels : amateur rules, semi pro and pro at CW division. He really was proven amateur, semi pro and pro world level superstar, also undisputed at CW.
    Usyk also had fought aboard, including vs tickets sellers and well known in these countries names, like Huck and Glowacki ( prime his version )
    He also does have interesting resume because he did not had get belts by beating old uncles, over the hill boxers etc. Rarity in pro boxing today.

    Te big problem that the now that they had gave him only Whiterspoon and now recently Chisora to fight with.
    Usyk is tired cos he fought a lot opponents in their prime and time is ticking, clock ticks.
    To beat up aging fighters not rarerly is less demanding hard work than even to win close decision in razor close fight vs real top level opponent or to fight vs " beast " in his physical prime. Usyk did this and this most likely had tired him a lot. Fighters he had fought with too did not had get their belts by beating over the hill uncles. Division was tough as hell.
     
  8. IntentionalBrit

    IntentionalBrit Member banned Full Member

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  9. Vegan Beast

    Vegan Beast Grandpappy Ortiz Full Member

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    Look at the fighters outside the top 10. None of them would do as well against Wilder than Ortiz.

    The likes of Helenius, Chisora etc would be obliterated.
     
  10. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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    And no Povetkin yet Ortiz is in there? Laughable.
     
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  11. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 Drama go, and don't come back Full Member

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    You say your going off records partly but then your deciding who won fights like Fury Wilder 1 and Hunter vs Povetkin

    That's very unbalanced
    Whilst i agree with the wrong results being announced on the night, you can not construct a top 10 like that

    Hunter being at 4 despite having no stand out win is dubious to say the least
    Joyce at 10 recently beat the former WBO number 1 yet that appears to not have been taken in to account

    Parker at 8 is probably about right but even he has no decent wins and the one good win he does have he never went toe to toe from my recollection
    In fact it was a slightly more aggressive version of the AJ performance

    Ortiz, well just shouldn't be there
    Not for me anyway
    His only noticeable win is against Jennings in what 2017 or so?

    And he did well against Wilder?

    He did ok but take in to account Wilder has a history of waiting for the right moment to be able to plant his feet and feel confident enough to let go without the possibility of a counter

    Its why he took so long to beat Ortiz, Molina, Szplilka, Washington, the list goes on

    Fair play for the post but im not gonna say i agree with too much of it
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
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  12. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, you assume that I did not had watched this fight?
    I really did not had watched Wilder vs Fury in fight day but on youtube week later yeah.

    In order to score fight I need to watch fight not only in real time but also in slow motion with 1/2 or even repeat 1/4 from normal natural speed and this is reason why I do not score all fights and also why I'm not professional boxing judge. I do know my limitations and also value my time.
    Therefore for ranking purposes I prefer to use official results.

    Also these yelling western fans are damn selfish and co ck y to discuss with them.

    I for example had scored Loma vs Lopez fight as very close with 2 X repeat at 1/2 speed and 1 X with 1/4 speed and 2X in original speed and my scorecard was 7 rounds for Lopez and 5 rounds for Loma, from these 3 rounds were very close.
    So I had scored this fight for Lopez with card 115-113.

    In the end of this hard work and waste of time for free I had get insults from noobs.

    I also years ago had scored one fight for Holyfield, fight he did not had won on cards.
    I do all the best to do my work at best quality I'm able to deliver in all duties I had in my life.
    So the same about boxing scoring. I always do the best and this takes damn a lot of time from me. Therefore I did not had scored fight Fury vs Wilder I. I do not have time for this.
     
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  13. piprules

    piprules Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don’t know why you see Fury 2-0 over Wilder. In the first fight he landed about 10 more punches over the whole fight, most of which were weak jabs- and got knocked down twice. He was lucky he got the draw. The second fight Fury smashed him no doubt.
     
  14. MidniteProwler

    MidniteProwler Fab 4. Mayor of Aussie Boxing Full Member

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    You make some interesting points and have obviously put in a lot effort I can see you have good boxing knowledge. I will just reply to a couple points I disagree with. First I would have Fury at number one I think beating Wlad first and dominating Wilder makes him number one. The other thing there is no way Whyte is number 3 not even close. I would pick everyone on that list to beat him including Parker in a rematch, I reckon Ruiz would KO Whyte within 3 rounds.
     
  15. JunlongXiFan

    JunlongXiFan 45-6 in Kirks Chmpionshp Boxing Predictions 2022 Full Member

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    I agree with your top 3, it gets way too fuzzy for me after that, especially Ortiz in top 10, when the guy behind him beat his best win, beat Dubois (considered top 25), and is undefeated.
     
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